1
00:00:15,260 --> 00:00:08,000
oh

2
00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:23,350
[Music]

3
00:00:34,389 --> 00:00:32,150
yeah welcome back to calling all beings

4
00:00:36,790 --> 00:00:34,399
this is an exciting night on the show

5
00:00:39,990 --> 00:00:36,800
we're talking about three letters baby

6
00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:40,000
nathan what are those three letters abc

7
00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:41,680
c

8
00:00:51,029 --> 00:00:48,239
your host dj along with my

9
00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:51,039
co-conspirator in this joint

10
00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:53,280
my man money nathan what's going on

11
00:00:55,990 --> 00:00:54,480
everybody great to see everyone it's

12
00:00:57,670 --> 00:00:56,000
been a while it's been a couple weeks

13
00:00:59,830 --> 00:00:57,680
for us i'm really excited for tonight's

14
00:01:01,670 --> 00:00:59,840
show so thank you to everyone who's

15
00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:01,680
joined in uh to listen we're gonna have

16
00:01:06,469 --> 00:01:03,280
a great great time

17
00:01:08,710 --> 00:01:06,479
got to see this brother in nyc people

18
00:01:12,070 --> 00:01:08,720
had some korean food with him he was

19
00:01:13,030 --> 00:01:12,080
doping it up with some katsudon anyway i

20
00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:13,040
also

21
00:01:17,429 --> 00:01:15,360
want to introduce our researcher

22
00:01:19,190 --> 00:01:17,439
and uh the brilliant

23
00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:19,200
mental health professional

24
00:01:24,070 --> 00:01:21,680
debs how are you ma'am i'm doing very

25
00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:24,080
well and i'm happy to say that maybe

26
00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:26,320
very soon i will see nathan in new york

27
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:27,920
i'm thinking about going to that

28
00:01:34,310 --> 00:01:31,520
conference nice that's awesome fantastic

29
00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:34,320
amen yes and deb i was so happy i got to

30
00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:36,320
speak with deb today and yesterday i got

31
00:01:41,109 --> 00:01:39,600
to speak with steph today life's good uh

32
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:41,119
and nathan he needed a couple day break

33
00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:43,250
for me but that's okay um so

34
00:01:46,789 --> 00:01:45,040
[Laughter]

35
00:01:48,469 --> 00:01:46,799
so anyway uh bring out our if you would

36
00:01:50,950 --> 00:01:48,479
bring on our guest panelists real quick

37
00:01:53,190 --> 00:01:50,960
so kevin couldn't make it tonight

38
00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:53,200
but guess what people we got someone

39
00:01:58,709 --> 00:01:55,040
with two varsity letters we're talking

40
00:02:00,149 --> 00:01:58,719
about my us navy cia brother john

41
00:02:02,149 --> 00:02:00,159
ramirez

42
00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:02,159
yeah yeah

43
00:02:04,789 --> 00:02:03,600
great to have you with us welcome to the

44
00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:04,799
show i guess you're part of the show now

45
00:02:07,990 --> 00:02:06,240
by the way have a benefits package we

46
00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:08,000
can let you know about that later yeah

47
00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:10,720
yes we'll talk about 401k and the

48
00:02:16,309 --> 00:02:13,040
matching on the eyeglasses and dental

49
00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:16,319
but uh anyway uh but right now we want

50
00:02:19,830 --> 00:02:18,080
to bring in the guest of the hour and it

51
00:02:22,869 --> 00:02:19,840
was so nice of john to come on and help

52
00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:22,879
us ask some questions to jim

53
00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:24,480
as if you need because anybody could ask

54
00:02:28,150 --> 00:02:26,319
like a zillion questions in this man

55
00:02:31,589 --> 00:02:28,160
this brother right here has a degree in

56
00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:31,599
secondary education from the ohio state

57
00:02:36,869 --> 00:02:34,640
university and a literary bachelors and

58
00:02:40,270 --> 00:02:36,879
he has a masters in english lit and

59
00:02:43,750 --> 00:02:40,280
guess what he was an ops officer in the

60
00:02:46,710 --> 00:02:43,760
cia's directorate of operation

61
00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:46,720
during his 25 years at the agency and he

62
00:02:52,630 --> 00:02:49,200
is currently the co-founder and vp of

63
00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:52,640
operations of to the stars academy along

64
00:02:56,949 --> 00:02:54,480
with brother tom delong

65
00:02:59,190 --> 00:02:56,959
a seminal organization for u.s

66
00:03:01,030 --> 00:02:59,200
disclosure for the ufo disclosure

67
00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:01,040
movement so let me tell you something

68
00:03:05,589 --> 00:03:03,040
people don't play with this man don't

69
00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:05,599
talk no craziness he gonna have you hog

70
00:03:10,149 --> 00:03:08,319
tied up in the back of a yacht like like

71
00:03:12,070 --> 00:03:10,159
liam neeson's victim with an apple

72
00:03:15,509 --> 00:03:12,080
hanging out your mouth so don't play no

73
00:03:27,910 --> 00:03:15,519
games but put your hands together for my

74
00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:29,990
i know i'm happy with it i'm i'm good

75
00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:34,000
i'm good to go amen

76
00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:35,360
welcome

77
00:03:38,710 --> 00:03:37,360
right he has a special set of skills i

78
00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:38,720
think yeah

79
00:03:42,390 --> 00:03:40,159
don't play with this man that's all i

80
00:03:45,190 --> 00:03:42,400
got to tell you so jim during your

81
00:03:46,390 --> 00:03:45,200
career did you ever have to like go on

82
00:03:48,949 --> 00:03:46,400
undercover

83
00:03:50,309 --> 00:03:48,959
learn how to surf and then you know

84
00:03:52,710 --> 00:03:50,319
because maybe like there was a group of

85
00:03:54,869 --> 00:03:52,720
bank robbers dressed up as ex-presidents

86
00:03:56,949 --> 00:03:54,879
anything like that ever happen

87
00:04:00,149 --> 00:03:56,959
uh well i know i mean yeah when you're

88
00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:00,159
on utah you you i would have different

89
00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:02,640
identities sometimes and uh

90
00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:04,480
um yeah and sometimes you would have to

91
00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:06,239
do things you don't you didn't know very

92
00:04:09,990 --> 00:04:08,879
well or you know but uh yeah it was par

93
00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:10,000
for the course

94
00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:11,920
but did you do like johnny utah and say

95
00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:14,480
i am a c.i.a

96
00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:15,040
no i'm scared

97
00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:17,199
[Laughter]

98
00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:19,840
john will tell you that you know we

99
00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:22,320
we we tr strive to be little gray men

100
00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:24,800
yeah i know yes you know just

101
00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:26,720
fade into the background

102
00:04:29,590 --> 00:04:28,400
i am kidding with you of course we

103
00:04:31,909 --> 00:04:29,600
always start with something really

104
00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:31,919
stupid and hopefully uh you get it but

105
00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:34,080
you know that one may have been even too

106
00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:36,960
dumb for you uh jim it is an honor to

107
00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:39,040
have you

108
00:04:43,670 --> 00:04:41,120
and uh i have a question

109
00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:43,680
here for you from

110
00:04:47,590 --> 00:04:45,120
one

111
00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:47,600
i have a question here uh for you and uh

112
00:04:51,749 --> 00:04:49,680
sometimes i'll yield a question to one

113
00:04:54,150 --> 00:04:51,759
of our friends of the show our cab fam

114
00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:54,160
this gentleman from the uk davey johnson

115
00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:57,040
who says uh jim you've described

116
00:05:02,230 --> 00:04:59,280
experiencers as being voyagers at the

117
00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:02,240
forefront of an expansion or evolution

118
00:05:06,469 --> 00:05:04,800
of consciousness alongside this and the

119
00:05:09,350 --> 00:05:06,479
moves that we are seeing in terms of

120
00:05:12,629 --> 00:05:09,360
disclosure of the subject do you think

121
00:05:14,629 --> 00:05:12,639
that the phenomenon is playing a part in

122
00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:14,639
increased interest in the subject or do

123
00:05:19,909 --> 00:05:16,880
you think this may be an example of not

124
00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:19,919
only anthro anthropocentrism

125
00:05:24,230 --> 00:05:22,720
but maybe even currentism and that our

126
00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:24,240
understanding and interaction with the

127
00:05:29,749 --> 00:05:26,800
phenomenon has remained the same for

128
00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:29,759
centuries and will remain the same

129
00:05:34,629 --> 00:05:32,160
wow that's uh

130
00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:34,639
that's a great question and uh kid's

131
00:05:39,430 --> 00:05:38,000
great i can unpack it a little bit uh

132
00:05:41,990 --> 00:05:39,440
you know the answer you know the short

133
00:05:43,909 --> 00:05:42,000
answer is i i don't know and i i i don't

134
00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:43,919
know anybody who does know i mean you

135
00:05:48,790 --> 00:05:46,960
know one of the one of the big things

136
00:05:51,590 --> 00:05:48,800
uh uh that you deal with when you're

137
00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:51,600
dealing with the phenomenon um is um

138
00:05:57,909 --> 00:05:52,880
this

139
00:05:59,830 --> 00:05:57,919
everybody you know comes at it you know

140
00:06:02,710 --> 00:05:59,840
from their own viewpoint and you know we

141
00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:02,720
we look at it anthropomorphically

142
00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:04,720
um uh because we have to i mean we're

143
00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:08,080
humans uh uh some some of us have you

144
00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:09,440
know certain backgrounds religious

145
00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:11,440
backgrounds or uh

146
00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:13,680
uh maybe uh you know psychological

147
00:06:16,790 --> 00:06:15,440
backgrounds military backgrounds

148
00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:16,800
whatever the store intelligence

149
00:06:21,029 --> 00:06:18,880
backgrounds whatever the story we try to

150
00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:21,039
look at it through these this lens

151
00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:24,400
um from my reading of the literature and

152
00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:26,400
i've read quite a bit i mean i do suffer

153
00:06:30,469 --> 00:06:28,240
from literary amnesia i mean you know i

154
00:06:31,749 --> 00:06:30,479
read books and i i have to go back and

155
00:06:35,830 --> 00:06:31,759
read them again i

156
00:06:37,749 --> 00:06:35,840
i i think i'm back to reading uh john

157
00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:37,759
keel for like the third or fourth time

158
00:06:39,909 --> 00:06:39,120
this whole

159
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:39,919
whole

160
00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:41,520
bunch of books i love him i think he's

161
00:06:45,350 --> 00:06:43,600
great but but no i mean i i don't know

162
00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:45,360
the answer to that i mean it could go

163
00:06:49,270 --> 00:06:46,800
either way i mean you know does the

164
00:06:51,589 --> 00:06:49,280
phenomenon basically direct us

165
00:06:52,950 --> 00:06:51,599
uh you know uh and is it directing us

166
00:06:55,510 --> 00:06:52,960
now um

167
00:06:58,150 --> 00:06:55,520
there's a lot to be said for that um uh

168
00:06:59,029 --> 00:06:58,160
in the sense that uh and it's my opinion

169
00:07:00,629 --> 00:06:59,039
um

170
00:07:03,189 --> 00:07:00,639
well it's not even my opinion i mean i

171
00:07:06,230 --> 00:07:03,199
feel this is real the phenomenon is real

172
00:07:07,350 --> 00:07:06,240
and it appears to be able to

173
00:07:12,790 --> 00:07:07,360
um

174
00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:12,800
impose itself uh on us uh on our uh

175
00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:14,800
on our uh the way we we see things the

176
00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:16,479
way we see it

177
00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:18,800
uh i know jacques villas

178
00:07:22,950 --> 00:07:20,960
talks a lot about that and um on the

179
00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:22,960
cover of his i think passport to magonia

180
00:07:27,510 --> 00:07:24,880
is the new cover the new passport to

181
00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:27,520
begonia he has you know the the masks in

182
00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:28,960
front of the graves in front of the you

183
00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:29,680
know

184
00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:32,560
and you sort of look at that and um

185
00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:36,800
that scenario and you don't know

186
00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:38,000
you don't know who to trust you i mean

187
00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:39,520
you can't trust it

188
00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:42,160
um right i was chatting with robert

189
00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:44,960
hastings not too long ago and and um

190
00:07:49,189 --> 00:07:47,280
and i i was i mentioned something to him

191
00:07:50,869 --> 00:07:49,199
about yeah i'm just gonna i'm gonna bury

192
00:07:52,469 --> 00:07:50,879
this stuff i'm out you know i don't want

193
00:07:54,869 --> 00:07:52,479
to do this anymore

194
00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:54,879
uh i was frustrated very very frustrated

195
00:07:59,270 --> 00:07:56,080
because

196
00:08:01,830 --> 00:07:59,280
the phenomenon doesn't really

197
00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:01,840
it doesn't really introduce itself to us

198
00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:04,960
i mean does it i mean it it it teases us

199
00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:08,639
um it will lie to us um sometimes it

200
00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:11,440
maybe maybe it will tell us the truth

201
00:08:16,469 --> 00:08:14,240
but there's no consistency to it there's

202
00:08:18,469 --> 00:08:16,479
no formality to it

203
00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:18,479
there's no introduction formal

204
00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:20,800
introduction to it and i believe that's

205
00:08:26,710 --> 00:08:24,800
true across the government um and um i i

206
00:08:29,350 --> 00:08:26,720
don't know

207
00:08:30,309 --> 00:08:29,360
if anything is going to change uh in the

208
00:08:32,149 --> 00:08:30,319
future

209
00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:32,159
the only thing i will say and i think

210
00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:35,599
it's apparent to everybody here

211
00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:38,080
that we certainly have been engaging

212
00:08:42,550 --> 00:08:40,800
with it a lot more in the last

213
00:08:43,589 --> 00:08:42,560
you know 80 years and particularly in

214
00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:43,599
the last

215
00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:48,070
would lead us to believe that perhaps

216
00:08:53,990 --> 00:08:50,800
something is going to happen

217
00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:54,000
some of the people i chat with

218
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:56,240
uh who deal with this

219
00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:01,509
you know mentioned that they feel uh

220
00:09:07,030 --> 00:09:03,040
like maybe something's gonna be

221
00:09:09,590 --> 00:09:07,040
happening soon uh uh you know i i

222
00:09:10,470 --> 00:09:09,600
i i don't know i mean i i really don't

223
00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:10,480
know

224
00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:18,560
side to it not a big bad side but a

225
00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:20,720
little bit of bad side to it whether

226
00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:22,720
that's a you know uh you know one

227
00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:25,360
species or you know two species out of

228
00:09:29,509 --> 00:09:27,360
20 i have no clue

229
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:29,519
but uh uh i don't know i mean you know

230
00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:34,000
it's it's uh i mean it's it's funny i i

231
00:09:39,509 --> 00:09:36,160
i in some of my podcasts you know that i

232
00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:39,519
do and uh you know and uh i

233
00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:42,880
i must sound like a a a looney tune uh

234
00:09:45,670 --> 00:09:44,160
because i don't know what else this i

235
00:09:46,389 --> 00:09:45,680
don't know what to say i mean i don't

236
00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:46,399
know

237
00:09:50,870 --> 00:09:47,760
i just don't

238
00:09:51,670 --> 00:09:50,880
and uh and some of my you know some of

239
00:09:53,269 --> 00:09:51,680
the

240
00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:53,279
briefings i had

241
00:09:59,030 --> 00:09:56,320
a year a few years ago on this

242
00:10:00,870 --> 00:09:59,040
uh at least a classified element to it

243
00:10:02,790 --> 00:10:00,880
it was just

244
00:10:04,310 --> 00:10:02,800
you know it there were there weren't any

245
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:04,320
answers it wasn't like you know somebody

246
00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:05,760
was telling me

247
00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:07,360
you know here's the answer you know and

248
00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:09,440
i mean you know the anunnaki or you know

249
00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:11,040
or here and blah blah blah blah blah and

250
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:12,880
you go on and on no i don't like that at

251
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:15,200
all it was actually just you know

252
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:17,040
this is all the stuff that's happening

253
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:19,360
out there this is very very real

254
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:21,040
you know you see the pictures you see

255
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,600
the data and then you go holy cow you

256
00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:25,760
know we're living in a in a uh in a

257
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:27,760
reality here that

258
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:28,640
um

259
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,560
is sort of closed off to us a lot of it

260
00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:32,640
is closed off to us

261
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,160
so um i'm i i tend to be rambling so i

262
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:37,839
apologize um

263
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:39,200
that's the best i can do with that

264
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:41,600
answer yes at the moment i'm not as i'm

265
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:44,000
not as eloquent as mr ramirez here who's

266
00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:46,160
uh actually both who i really truly

267
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:48,399
admire i mean uh uh he

268
00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:50,560
he sent me a uh

269
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,200
a slide deck oh about a year ago on on

270
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,880
the government you know and i

271
00:10:58,389 --> 00:10:56,880
i just was like blown away by it i was

272
00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:58,399
going like holy cow

273
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:59,680
you know i wish i had the brains to do

274
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:01,120
it because he was an analyst you know

275
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:02,800
and the analysts really are the guys of

276
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,560
smart guys right and he not only was he

277
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:06,720
an analyst he was a ds and t analyst is

278
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:08,240
like holy cow

279
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:09,680
you know

280
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:12,079
we always admire people who have a

281
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,760
i'm sorry we always admire people have

282
00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:15,839
this different talent and skill set than

283
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,839
we have that's what's you know what's

284
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:19,760
inspiring and what i want to say before

285
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:21,600
i pass it over to my co-conspirator

286
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:23,040
nathan is that

287
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,200
i'm also inspired and empowered i think

288
00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:27,519
as as because you and other experiencers

289
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,519
have said you were able to put your

290
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,160
metaphorical foot down and say no i

291
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,160
don't want this at this time and you

292
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,720
were able to push back on the phenomenon

293
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,120
and i think uh for people that are

294
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,519
having an experience uh that that maybe

295
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:43,839
they're uneasy about and david lanier

296
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,320
also has espoused that and i'm glad that

297
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:48,399
you're that you're able to do that that

298
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,519
that is inspiring thank you i i you know

299
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,480
stuart davis is um you know is uh

300
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:56,720
i think a believer in that and he's

301
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:59,200
another wonderful wonderful guy and i i

302
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,440
happen to share his opinions on this i

303
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:04,079
don't like being controlled

304
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:07,120
i don't i you know who does right but i

305
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,399
don't like that i don't like this

306
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:11,519
concept and um it's it's highly

307
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:13,200
bothersome and it's not just bothersome

308
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,800
to me it's bothersome to a lot of people

309
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:16,880
you have this whole idea

310
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:20,240
of uh sovereignty you know and uh

311
00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,839
i'm sure you've all read that article by

312
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,440
alexander wendt you know ohio state

313
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,279
university professor on

314
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,200
ufos and sovereignty but it's it's a

315
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,760
wonderful article and um uh but it's

316
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,839
true and and you know we all sort of

317
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:34,160
like order in our lives and and we want

318
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,040
to have some kind of a

319
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:39,920
say in in how we conduct our lives

320
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,279
uh and then all of a sudden this

321
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:43,760
phenomenon pops in and basically i think

322
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:47,360
what it's telling us is no no no that's

323
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:50,399
you you may think you do uh but we can

324
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:51,760
control this

325
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,000
so uh interesting stuff you know

326
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:58,240
i definitely and inspiring i wrote that

327
00:13:02,550 --> 00:12:59,760
one down so that i can read that because

328
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,560
i haven't read that but uh my co-creator

329
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,320
nathan take it away sir

330
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:06,000
thanks um yeah so jim you kind of

331
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:07,519
touched on this uh

332
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,800
issue and it's something that i've been

333
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,800
thinking about for quite some time now

334
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:12,320
i'd love to get your thoughts on it and

335
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,600
and maybe john if you want to weigh in

336
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:15,519
as well but you know i'm sure because

337
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:16,800
i'm sure you've thought about it so this

338
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,240
issue of trust

339
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:20,320
uh this issue of how do we go about

340
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,079
trusting a thing which

341
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:23,839
one as you said it's pretty elusive

342
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:25,200
we're having a hard time really even

343
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,279
kind of getting our hands around it but

344
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,600
two which seems to surpass

345
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:32,000
you know many of our abilities you know

346
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,839
many of our technological abilities our

347
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,519
cognitive abilities kind of knows what's

348
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:36,959
happening before we're even aware of

349
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:38,959
what's going to happen

350
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,480
you know have you put some thought into

351
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:42,240
kind of thinking through

352
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:43,760
what would we do or what would be what

353
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,480
would be looking for to kind of develop

354
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,720
a trust with whatever this is are we

355
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,880
really hoping for more overt open

356
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:53,040
contact for that to happen is there

357
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,720
something that you know you think is a

358
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,720
prerequisite for us being able to really

359
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,240
have a meaningful kind of trusting

360
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:00,079
relationship with it

361
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:01,760
well that's that's another good question

362
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:02,639
um

363
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:07,680
yeah there has to be some kind of uh of

364
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,560
uh

365
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:10,880
understanding of what this is before we

366
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:13,120
can actually have a relationship with it

367
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:15,680
and frankly i uh

368
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,040
you know

369
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:19,839
i think we're at the point

370
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,440
now that that we that most most people

371
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,880
who are heavily involved in this at

372
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,639
least in the government understand that

373
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,320
this is real and i think congress now

374
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,000
knows it's real i mean this whole

375
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,160
nonsense about you know china and russia

376
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:33,839
that's all that's good no no no it's not

377
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:36,720
man-made it isn't it everybody knows it

378
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:38,959
in the government it's just nonsense you

379
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:41,120
know it is definitely something else and

380
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:43,040
um you know what that is we don't really

381
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:46,720
know but um you know i remember a jock

382
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:49,040
valet when he he came to my house once

383
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,480
um

384
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:52,800
once uh people found out about the

385
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,040
experience my wife and i had and

386
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:57,519
immediately afterwards um

387
00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:00,399
he he flew out to see me and and my wife

388
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:02,880
and you know spent the day with us and

389
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:04,880
hooked photographs and what have you and

390
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:06,560
but we had a really nice conversation

391
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:08,160
and i had already read all this all of

392
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:09,839
his books and

393
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:12,000
and um i asked them over lunch and i

394
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:13,519
said really

395
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,920
jacques you know

396
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:17,760
what do we do with this i mean you know

397
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:18,639
and he

398
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,959
he he said to me he said well he said

399
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:22,639
it's extraordinarily complex and he says

400
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,800
i don't know what to tell you he said

401
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:26,800
and he used this thing about an iphone

402
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:28,240
he said you have your iphone and i said

403
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,680
yeah he said we'll take it out to a

404
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:31,199
pastor and throw it in front of a cow

405
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:32,880
and have a conversation

406
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,839
and that's about where we are with this

407
00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:37,680
so um

408
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,920
you know once again i go back to you

409
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:41,519
know if there's any going to be in a

410
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,680
relationship with the phenomenon in any

411
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:45,839
way shape or form there has to be a

412
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,399
level of trust there there has to be

413
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,720
some kind of opening that where where

414
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,639
the phenomena would say this is who we

415
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,040
are or this is what we are

416
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:57,360
uh and whether that's an intelligence

417
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,560
you know it's just just a and maybe a

418
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,480
like a gaia type intelligence or

419
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:04,560
universal type intelligence that's

420
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:06,320
certainly a possibility

421
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,360
um

422
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:08,959
uh or whether

423
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,279
you know it's like young talked about it

424
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:13,120
it is you know our own psychic this

425
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,800
equilibrium

426
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:16,079
you know

427
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:19,600
subconscious and what we're actually

428
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,720
seeing is you know as ourselves you know

429
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,800
uh putting ourselves out there wishing

430
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:26,720
for our new myth that you know to come

431
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:27,519
in

432
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:36,639
uh but what it is is it is it one or is

433
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:39,759
it 20 different entities

434
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:42,880
uh is it one entity that masks itself in

435
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:45,120
20 different guises

436
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:46,160
um

437
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,440
but my my big my big problem is how do

438
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:51,839
you connect this

439
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:53,600
i mean if you if you do

440
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:57,440
uh near-death studies um i i i was uh my

441
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,759
wife and i were was at the uh ions

442
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,279
conference you know international

443
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:03,920
association near death you know uh

444
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,880
experiences you know in uh in uh king of

445
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,039
prussia pennsylvania

446
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:11,439
a couple years ago and we had the chance

447
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:14,480
to meet with uh evan alexander and

448
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:16,480
other experiencers there and when you

449
00:17:21,189 --> 00:17:18,160
listen to them and then you read kenneth

450
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,199
ring and you know you know and and

451
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:22,720
and you look at all that and you say

452
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:23,679
well okay

453
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,319
that how does that play into this

454
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,240
how does mystical experiences religious

455
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,640
mystical experiences play into this how

456
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:33,200
does the work of michael newton you know

457
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,080
um

458
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,320
you know destiny of souls play into this

459
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:38,240
i mean where we go after we die and you

460
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,480
know soul groups things along those

461
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,240
lines um

462
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,240
so you know

463
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,320
because in a way you can look at this

464
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,400
and you can say well you know i use this

465
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,000
analogy of the great chain of being you

466
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,080
know that maybe this this this

467
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:54,000
this phenomenon is sits in there

468
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:55,280
somewhere

469
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,400
um

470
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,160
and that it's not quite as powerful as

471
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,120
we think it is but in the end you know

472
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:03,840
when we all die and we go to some place

473
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:06,160
you know is that really the the end or

474
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:07,679
the answer

475
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:09,679
you know and that the phenomena is just

476
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:12,080
basically like a bunch of gin screwing

477
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:13,760
with us you know and because and i

478
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,280
always think it is the gem be honest

479
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,880
with you because if you read the

480
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,320
literature on the gym this is

481
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:20,640
essentially what it amounts to right

482
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:25,750
spiritual beings

483
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,480
uh who have good

484
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:30,480
sides and bad sides to them they're much

485
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:32,000
like we are

486
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:37,909
i don't know i mean i i that's that's my

487
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:40,840
train of thought on this i i but i

488
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:44,559
don't i i don't see

489
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,760
any opening

490
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:47,280
coming i mean

491
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:50,799
any anytime soon i just don't i mean i

492
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:52,880
they're toying with us it's it's toying

493
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:54,840
with us whatever it is

494
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,559
um one question i have following that as

495
00:19:00,789 --> 00:19:00,000
and we're going to pass it to deb is

496
00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:00,799
next

497
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:01,919
is that

498
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,640
the fact that you were able to push back

499
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,919
and get

500
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:07,679
the phenomenon to perhaps stop

501
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,640
interacting as as you wanted it to stop

502
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:12,799
does that mean it's capable of an

503
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:15,760
emotion or a feeling of respect does it

504
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,120
respect you more or was it just they

505
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:21,120
sensed that there was a push back and

506
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,640
and then it was just a resp of response

507
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:26,160
well

508
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,760
that that's really

509
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,280
an excellent question also too because

510
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:31,360
it you know i always use this

511
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,400
example

512
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,240
chris bledsoe is very dear friend of

513
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:36,480
mine and we all know his story

514
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,559
uh when i first heard his story from his

515
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,720
own lips

516
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:42,160
one of the most frightening things i've

517
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:46,000
ever heard uh for both he and his son

518
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:48,000
who was with him during this

519
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,840
um there are very very

520
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:52,640
uh

521
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:55,120
interesting elements to it um the

522
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:57,039
translucent beings

523
00:20:06,310 --> 00:19:57,840
the

524
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:06,320
but what happened to chris was it it was

525
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:07,919
a frightening experience that turned

526
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,720
into really a spiritual awareness and

527
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:13,039
john mack talks a lot about this

528
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:14,720
this whole idea of having these

529
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,360
experiences and then having it change

530
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,960
your life

531
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:21,200
uh for the better

532
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,799
then you look at me

533
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,400
and my wife

534
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:25,919
we've always been very spiritually

535
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,080
oriented my wife and i we're we're not

536
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,039
uh atheist uh but and we're definitely

537
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:33,280
not religious in the least but we

538
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,159
generally tend to believe in you know in

539
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,840
a greater good

540
00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:40,799
that's out there and and what have you

541
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,159
but i saw my experience

542
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,799
a lot differently i mean i have not the

543
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:48,480
anger has not left

544
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,440
all right

545
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:51,120
because i i'm looking at this i mean i

546
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:53,440
you know it's like this didn't teach me

547
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,559
anything

548
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:56,240
i don't think about

549
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,360
spirituality about changing myself you

550
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,520
know i was already a climate activist i

551
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,840
was already a decent guy i believe in

552
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,159
algis huxley's you know idea of kindness

553
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:08,080
and compassion and love

554
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:09,520
and things along those lines and i try

555
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,039
to live my life according to this so i'm

556
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:13,120
trying to think to myself what in god's

557
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:15,120
name was it trying to tell me

558
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:18,159
but all it did was you know created this

559
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:19,919
human rights violation of the highest

560
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,320
order on on both me and my wife where we

561
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:24,080
had you know we had issues after the

562
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,679
after that experience

563
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,760
so i'm not happy about it and and i'm

564
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,280
not the only one either i mean there are

565
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:30,720
many people

566
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:32,960
who had um the same kind of deal you

567
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:35,760
look at you know um

568
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,880
uh

569
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,120
alex i guess they call them you know and

570
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:41,440
skinwalker ranch in the books i know him

571
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:43,360
very well you know we're friends he's a

572
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,919
nice nice wonderful guy so did you mean

573
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,440
axelrod jim

574
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,200
pardon a is it alex or

575
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,919
axelrod is that absolutely i mean

576
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:53,919
yeah

577
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,559
and um and that's a rod you know i i met

578
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,159
him at the pentagon the first time and

579
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:00,480
you know and sort of heard his story but

580
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:03,120
when you look at that you know it's it's

581
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,600
not it's not good it's not good for

582
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,039
children to be

583
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,360
you know treated like that i mean a wolf

584
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:11,039
showing up you know in their backyard

585
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:12,480
scaring the living [\h__\h] out of two of

586
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,720
their children and their wife you know

587
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:16,159
things along those lines so you look at

588
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,080
that and you say well okay

589
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,039
is what aspect of the phenomenon is that

590
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,080
uh and what is that teaching some 15

591
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,200
year old you know uh besides you know

592
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,880
the world's a very strange place and it

593
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:31,120
might not be all good

594
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:33,039
yeah great you know but all they got to

595
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,960
do is go to a cancer ward and say jews

596
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:36,400
they're going to see the same damn thing

597
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,520
you're going to learn the same damn

598
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:38,799
lesson

599
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,960
so i'm i'm very much uh uh

600
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:44,960
i mean i could be swayed

601
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:47,520
obviously but but i'm very much not of

602
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:50,240
the opinion uh like a lot of my friends

603
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:51,840
are i think most of my friends are that

604
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:53,840
this might be a very very good thing it

605
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:56,720
might be i mean but if for me i don't

606
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,159
see that and if it's 10 bad or 20 bad

607
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:02,559
then that to me is that means it's not

608
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:08,149
given their power their technological

609
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:11,039
and and consciousness influence it's

610
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,960
a significant number even at that low

611
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:13,840
number

612
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,280
uh debs

613
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,760
yeah it's the it's the old um you know

614
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,280
religious

615
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,840
uh conundrum you know god works in

616
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:23,840
mysterious ways so he can't question him

617
00:23:28,149 --> 00:23:25,039
oh really

618
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,159
uh or um you know or you know you know

619
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,480
he he watches you know

620
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:32,240
six million jews die

621
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,720
20 million ukrainians die you know and

622
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:36,720
you know and then a million or two

623
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:38,799
million you know uh cambodians die and

624
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:41,039
you you watch that and you know and you

625
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:42,320
say well

626
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:44,960
i mean i hate to sound like a college

627
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,760
sophomore you know discussing philosophy

628
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,840
but it's it's it's a very real it's it's

629
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:51,679
a very real scenario right i mean you're

630
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:53,039
looking at that and you're saying like

631
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,159
okay

632
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,400
uh the god thing i got over with a long

633
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:58,400
time ago i said but the phenomenon thing

634
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:00,799
it's the same same deal in a way

635
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:02,880
this thing has the ability to do what it

636
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:05,919
does yet it's not offering us anything

637
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:08,320
it isn't the military wants to weaponize

638
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:10,240
this the intelligence community wants to

639
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,320
weaponize this there isn't any this is

640
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:13,760
why we moved it out

641
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,159
ttts by the way we're not to the stars

642
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:18,080
inc we're not to the stars academy

643
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,120
anymore but

644
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,200
this is one of the reasons why lou left

645
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:23,600
and everybody else left it is because

646
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:26,720
you know we wanted to basically make it

647
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,880
something that um

648
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,039
that the public owns that the public has

649
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:32,880
to find out what the answer to this is

650
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:36,799
not the military i i i'm a big fan of

651
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,000
the intelligence community in the

652
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,000
military in many respects i you know i

653
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:41,840
wish them god speed

654
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,679
on trying to figure out what this is but

655
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:45,440
i don't expect anything from the

656
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:46,799
government on this

657
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,279
uh to come out uh the government exists

658
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,880
solely for the defense of the united

659
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:52,799
states they're not you know here

660
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,799
and to be the uh you know ufo

661
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:57,039
directorate or something like that

662
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:58,799
that's not their deal

663
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:01,520
they're not going to feel compelled

664
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,120
to tell the american public anything

665
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:05,279
tell a friend tell an enemy right there

666
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,799
they're they're just basically going to

667
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,039
figure out what their what they need to

668
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,720
know you know to defend the united

669
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,200
states of america if indeed

670
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:15,200
there's a reason why we need to we may

671
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:16,880
not you know

672
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,760
so we need to have um

673
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:21,919
uh you know a concerted effort i was out

674
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:24,400
at um a think tank out in california

675
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:26,080
last year

676
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:28,080
about 10 months ago it was about 20 of

677
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,320
us and we had a really really good

678
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,159
meeting on some journalists scholars

679
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:34,320
experiencers things along those lines

680
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,200
and

681
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,520
we discussed

682
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:39,679
you know the need to create

683
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:42,480
um something like um

684
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,470
an institution that studies this and you

685
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,120
know sort of i laid out a

686
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,200
um sort of a uh

687
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:54,960
an outline of what that would take how

688
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,720
much money that would cost and what you

689
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,640
would need to do to do it

690
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:00,320
um

691
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:02,159
because i think there is a way we can at

692
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:03,760
least

693
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:06,720
locate some dots to try and later on

694
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,159
connect you know

695
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:10,720
because right now i don't i mean you can

696
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,559
say we have dots you know and that

697
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:14,240
they're not connected um i'm not even

698
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:17,520
sure we have dots because i'm not sure

699
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:18,559
i'm not sure

700
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:21,120
whether the dots are actually real

701
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:25,840
and so you know again i apologize for

702
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,760
for for rambling a little bit here

703
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,520
that's great it's okay we're we're happy

704
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:32,640
to this is very intelligent rambling uh

705
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,200
deb uh you you have your first question

706
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,400
for mr semivan i do thank you please

707
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,279
call me jim yeah

708
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,360
yeah okay

709
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,320
so i am fascinated by the books on the

710
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,960
shelf behind you and i could not help

711
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:51,679
but notice some large letters

712
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:54,799
there's a book about dmt and as a result

713
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:58,559
i am now reading dmt the spirit molecule

714
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,559
yeah and i was wondering if you think

715
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,200
that there could be a component there

716
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:05,679
that has to do with how experiencers

717
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,559
might be getting manipulated

718
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,799
wow yeah uh

719
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,720
you know i i was a fan of terence

720
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:15,200
mckenna and his brother uh and their

721
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:18,840
their little expeditions you know into

722
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,679
ayahuasca and you know other other other

723
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:24,000
drugs magic mushrooms celestia been

724
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,760
things along those lines

725
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,679
and um i can't remember the

726
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,279
psychiatrist's name who was working on

727
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:30,880
dmti um

728
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:31,679
uh

729
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:35,679
if you listen to strasman strossman

730
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,520
doesn't really you know say like this is

731
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,039
the god molecule or this is really

732
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,039
what's gonna he basically

733
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:43,200
you know says this is just what it is i

734
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,120
mean it it's just the molecule that

735
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:46,240
basically

736
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:48,080
a la or an enzyme or a chemical that

737
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,799
allows us to uh you know uh

738
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:53,840
go into an area of the uh

739
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,799
of the brain that that appears

740
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,799
appears to allow us

741
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:00,880
to get into consciousness

742
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,080
uh you know uh very very quickly um

743
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,000
and and i'm not and for not very long

744
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:07,919
period of time those those kind of highs

745
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:10,480
don't last very long maybe 20 minutes 30

746
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:11,360
minutes

747
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:12,960
but you know this goes back to this

748
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,520
whole idea that you know gary gary nolan

749
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:17,919
uh who's you know a dear friend

750
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,399
but he talks about the um

751
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:23,039
claudette and pataman but i think i'm

752
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,399
hopefully pronouncing that right in the

753
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:26,000
brain

754
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:26,799
yeah

755
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:28,960
and you know and and looking at that and

756
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,279
you know there are no conclusions

757
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,880
on that right now and he wouldn't he

758
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,480
wouldn't say that there would be any

759
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:36,480
kind of really connection but it is it

760
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:37,840
is interesting

761
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:41,279
um uh i'm part of that cohort study um

762
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,600
my wife and i um

763
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,880
and uh

764
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,240
and

765
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:47,840
that where they're looking at you know

766
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,720
our dna and and god knows everything

767
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:52,320
else and they have our whole medical

768
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,799
history and what have you but um yeah i

769
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,880
mean you know there there could very

770
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,799
well be i mean the brain don't forget i

771
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,559
mean as we all know this is a filter

772
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:02,559
right it's a filtering system

773
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,320
uh our our ability to see what we see is

774
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,480
is very limited in hearing our senses

775
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:10,159
are very very limited

776
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:13,520
um and so the brain doesn't allow us to

777
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,240
basically become aware with a capital a

778
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:18,880
right it it can't because we couldn't

779
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:19,760
handle

780
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,679
the awareness get in a car and drive a

781
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:24,000
car if you actually stood there i mean

782
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:25,440
sat there and

783
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,679
everything that was going on you know in

784
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,840
your body that helps you drive that car

785
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,520
if that really came into your system it

786
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:33,440
would you be completely overloaded you'd

787
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:34,960
probably collapse and die i mean if

788
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,279
there's no way you can understand the

789
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,600
breathing the blood flow the synapses

790
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:41,360
going on in different parts of the brain

791
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,120
the muscle memory involved and how that

792
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:45,200
all works how could you possibly keep

793
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:46,559
that in your head

794
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:48,399
or anything for that matter how could

795
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:50,080
you possibly do that

796
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,919
so what what's happening is you know

797
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:53,520
we're we're

798
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:56,320
we're limited by you know who we are

799
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:57,600
as humans

800
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,000
uh but yet

801
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,960
yet we have we have this spark we we

802
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:04,480
have this

803
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:05,360
this

804
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:09,360
self-consciousness that seems to me to

805
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:12,080
be leaking a little bit into a cosmic

806
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:13,760
consciousness you know allah richard

807
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,559
buck

808
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,039
would talk about um

809
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:19,760
that allows many of us

810
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,320
you know to look into this to look into

811
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:24,320
consciousness and have i remember lou

812
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:26,240
elizondo talking about

813
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,600
you know i asked him once i said what do

814
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:29,600
you think you know the the answer is

815
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,880
going to be found and he said well

816
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:32,640
somewhere between the nexus of quantum

817
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,440
mechanics and consciousness and i think

818
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,919
i think he's right i think if you look

819
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,520
at two places that's probably where it's

820
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,799
going to be

821
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:42,159
uh but

822
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,679
consciousness

823
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,840
the hell i mean you know

824
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:47,679
i haven't read anything yet that

825
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,720
convinces me um that it's um

826
00:30:53,909 --> 00:30:51,840
you know

827
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:53,919
uh local

828
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:56,000
non-local i'd lean that way but i

829
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:58,399
haven't seen anything else but then

830
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,440
again if you look at near-death

831
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,760
experiences things along those lines

832
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,000
well what does that mean you know it may

833
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:06,880
very well be you know uh non-local which

834
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,960
i think it probably is

835
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:10,880
but what how does that connect to this

836
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,600
this this phenomenon and i i don't know

837
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:15,039
or are they

838
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,120
i feel like you answered for me because

839
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,960
now i'm going to lean towards a stress

840
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:20,399
response

841
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:27,679
apparently is helping with

842
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,880
so yeah yeah exactly you know you know i

843
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,120
mean the dopamine receptors in the brain

844
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:34,960
things along those lines

845
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,919
uh uh i mean it's uh

846
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,919
what you know brain chemicals what do

847
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:41,840
they do when when evan alexander you

848
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,240
know was essentially brain dead his

849
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:47,840
brain was absolute mush mush he had no i

850
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,200
mean there was absolutely no way he

851
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:50,799
could have recovered from that

852
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,919
but yet he the brain shut down

853
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,840
much like the brain shuts down when you

854
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:57,600
uh when you when you're given anesthesia

855
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:59,039
right you know it's one of the best

856
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,480
sleeps you'll ever have

857
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:02,320
get a colonoscopy if you haven't got one

858
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:06,159
get one every 10 years uh and uh but but

859
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:07,360
it's the best sleep you ever have when

860
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:08,799
you come out of it because you're just

861
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,960
completely cut off

862
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,080
all right so

863
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:13,679
and then some people say well because of

864
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,240
that that means that we're not

865
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:18,080
i mean that that the brain doesn't go i

866
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,440
mean then the word the consciousness

867
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:21,760
doesn't go anywhere i mean did you yeah

868
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:24,880
i i don't know i mean maybe maybe not

869
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:25,840
but

870
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:27,039
uh

871
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:29,120
what happens when when evan alexander

872
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:30,960
left his body and that experience that

873
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:33,679
he had right is is just absolutely

874
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,480
incredible and from what he told

875
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,640
my wife my wife had lunch with him i

876
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,399
think a couple times

877
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:43,039
he didn't he wasn't able to talk about

878
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,120
some of the things he saw

879
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:47,039
uh some of the alien kind of things he

880
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:49,840
saw and he didn't put it in the book

881
00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:52,799
um but you know and uh

882
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,799
you know i don't want to speak for him

883
00:33:02,710 --> 00:32:57,120
but but nevertheless

884
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,310
thank you uh jim let's we're going to

885
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:05,919
pass it over to your colleague and

886
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,200
friend uh mr john ramirez

887
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:11,679
hey jim um i just wanted to get your

888
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,679
take on

889
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:15,840
this sudden rush that we seem to be

890
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,840
feeling um whereas

891
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,000
for the last seven decades

892
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:22,080
you absolutely heard little or nothing

893
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:23,600
from government

894
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,519
and within the last several years

895
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:27,840
there's a rush of information coming out

896
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:30,799
and now we have legislation in congress

897
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:32,559
that compels

898
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:34,799
the department and

899
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,399
the agencies in the intelligence

900
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:38,000
community to come forward with

901
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:40,159
information why do you think that is are

902
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:42,240
we rushing towards some

903
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,080
um

904
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,080
occurrence that the government might

905
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,480
know about what is causing all of this

906
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,320
to happen

907
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,799
wow okay yeah well you know remember in

908
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:54,880
1947

909
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:56,559
the military the air force came out in

910
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:58,559
the air force said this phenomenon's

911
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:59,360
real

912
00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:00,159
right

913
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,320
then the agency got involved with the

914
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:05,120
air force and

915
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,639
there was absolutely no way particularly

916
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:10,240
after pearl harbor

917
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,760
that cia

918
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,000
and the air force were going to let this

919
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:16,000
drop just because quote unquote they

920
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:18,079
didn't know what it was and that they

921
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:19,440
weren't going to have a program yeah i

922
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:21,200
think blue book you know grudge all

923
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,720
these things they were just covers i

924
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:24,720
mean they were just something for the

925
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,280
for the public but i think

926
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,119
that's where the legacy programs lie i

927
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:31,280
mean they've been going on for a long

928
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,359
long time and you know i think they're

929
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,280
extraordinarily hard to get to

930
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:36,960
uh but they're there

931
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:37,839
and

932
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,599
to be there because they really can't

933
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,280
let this go

934
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,200
uh i know this and john you know this

935
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:47,280
too i mean when you know you know uh

936
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,159
when when we found out in the um i think

937
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:53,040
60s or 70s the russians were fooling

938
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:54,800
around with remote viewing what was the

939
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:57,280
first thing we did cia went right out

940
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,320
and hired

941
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:01,520
off he did it for 20 years

942
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:04,800
20 years right uh funding this thing and

943
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,400
and um they canned the program in 1997.

944
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:10,079
i was there when they candid i happened

945
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:11,440
to be this is my

946
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,680
serendipity but i remember the guy who

947
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,440
candid a responsible very very senior

948
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,839
guy in the dsnt and he told me he said

949
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,920
he said look it works there's no

950
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,839
question remote for me works he said we

951
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,920
just can't explain it so he said how do

952
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,359
you go to the president how do you do an

953
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,280
intelligence assessment and then when

954
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:29,359
they and the president said okay the

955
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,560
russians have this you know new

956
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,240
submarine or whatever new missile they

957
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,240
built and he said well this guy went out

958
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:36,160
on his silver cord and blah blah blah

959
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,640
yeah it's just not gonna go so so

960
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,720
that doesn't mean when they i say can

961
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:42,000
the program that the program's

962
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,440
absolutely gone that means it's usually

963
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:45,839
going to get picked up by somebody else

964
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:48,560
but usually what the agency does is the

965
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:50,480
reaction to what other other people do

966
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:52,480
now getting back to your question john

967
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,119
so you have this

968
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,320
this this movement and since nobody

969
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,000
knows what it is and since in the early

970
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,560
days they truly were worried about it uh

971
00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:04,240
for all kinds of reasons you know more

972
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:05,720
mundane reasons you know like

973
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:07,599
telecommunications and stuff was really

974
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:08,960
crappy and all and they didn't want to

975
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,599
get everybody all wound up

976
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,520
and then they started this stupid-ass

977
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,839
phony crap that they you know had the

978
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:17,839
the media do and that they were doing

979
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,240
about you know they just did an enormous

980
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,680
disservice to

981
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,440
all these experiencers it was just

982
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,599
disgustingly awful and you know when you

983
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:27,359
think back on it all these poor people

984
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,720
who have these experiences and they make

985
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,000
fun of them

986
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:33,200
oh anyway so that's all going on and um

987
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:34,720
and this is where you have to sort of

988
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:36,800
credit lou because um even though you

989
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:37,599
had

990
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:39,119
people like you

991
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,200
involved in this you know you guys were

992
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:43,520
too young for the 60s but in the 70s 80s

993
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,640
90s

994
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,320
and you had guys like george knapp and

995
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:48,400
jack valet you know they're pushing all

996
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,839
this and uh

997
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:51,359
and you know

998
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,960
richard dolan and

999
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,280
even steven greer you know going going

1000
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,040
after this full force robert hastings

1001
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:58,800
there's dozens and dozens of these

1002
00:37:02,550 --> 00:36:59,760
people

1003
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,560
but there but it is in in the background

1004
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:04,560
it's in the background because

1005
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:07,599
nobody came out and nobody said anything

1006
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,440
uh uh in the military and then when the

1007
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:11,839
military did come out it was it it

1008
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,760
wasn't when they did have these little

1009
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:15,359
things like grier put on one robert

1010
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:16,800
hastings put on

1011
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,880
it just didn't connect with anybody

1012
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,640
nobody really paid it any attention

1013
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,800
because this whole tradition

1014
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:25,359
of disbelief you know this is uh this

1015
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,640
whole idea that the press and the media

1016
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,480
and the military put out thing yeah it's

1017
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,200
all a bunch of horse horse crap right

1018
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:35,280
that was so strong no one was able to

1019
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:36,400
break it

1020
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,160
until

1021
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,520
uh

1022
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:44,160
decided um

1023
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:45,920
i was there i mean you know i chatted

1024
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,800
with him

1025
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,480
about this and he told me he was going

1026
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,079
to leave and we talked about the you

1027
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:52,320
know the films and and you know and what

1028
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,680
have you and

1029
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:55,359
and he told me what he was going to do

1030
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:57,200
and

1031
00:38:03,750 --> 00:37:58,400
i

1032
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:03,760
um

1033
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:08,640
and and he was young you know

1034
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,280
maybe late 40s and he easily could have

1035
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:13,599
jumped i think into the senior ranks

1036
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,560
uh but he decided to leave

1037
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:18,400
and because he felt so strongly about

1038
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:19,839
this

1039
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,400
so i introduced him to tom or put him

1040
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,320
together with tom and then tom hired him

1041
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:26,560
for ttsa right away and then christopher

1042
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,320
mellon in the meantime thomas called

1043
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:31,920
chris and then chris came in so you know

1044
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:32,720
you know

1045
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:37,599
mellon and and lou that i think

1046
00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:39,119
everybody needs to tip their hat to him

1047
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:40,880
because they really they really sort of

1048
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,280
jumped out there on this um

1049
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,040
uh and

1050
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,400
when we decided we were going to

1051
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,000
figure out how we were going to push

1052
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,280
this it was a concerted effort

1053
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,800
um

1054
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,640
you know tom backed this whole thing tom

1055
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:59,040
belong and you know i i give him an

1056
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,800
enormous amount of credit

1057
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:02,640
people sort of make fun of him because

1058
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:05,440
he's uh you know he's uh you know a rock

1059
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,560
musician and you know he make dick jokes

1060
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:10,720
all the time and what have you and

1061
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:12,960
and uh

1062
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:15,440
but when you talk to the man

1063
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:17,680
this is he's uh he's nobody's full man

1064
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,760
he is one smart guy

1065
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,320
he very well read on the topic he knew

1066
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:24,240
what he wanted to do he went out and he

1067
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:25,359
did it

1068
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:31,200
talking to him now trying to figure out

1069
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:33,440
and yeah i mean you know he's actually

1070
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:35,200
going to be talking to a whole group of

1071
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:36,400
uh uh

1072
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:39,359
people at the fbi academy pretty soon

1073
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:41,200
on this and so i give him a lot of

1074
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,560
credit for actually putting all that

1075
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:44,880
stuff together and then but but the the

1076
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:47,760
big thing john was was lou and and chris

1077
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,560
mellon chris mellon went after this

1078
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:52,079
i mean lou

1079
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:53,440
lou and chris sort of you know went

1080
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:55,119
together and then they sort of split a

1081
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,880
little bit but and then they went you

1082
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:58,400
know i went to the

1083
00:40:06,390 --> 00:39:59,359
the

1084
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,400
us we're not going classified on this

1085
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:08,800
but we are doing this they were okay

1086
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,960
with that and then chris went into

1087
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:12,640
congress and boy i'll tell you you know

1088
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,119
he was a guy he ran he was a staff

1089
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:17,520
director of [\h__\h] yes a senate select

1090
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:20,079
committee on intelligence um he knew

1091
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:22,079
everybody and and and then you know of

1092
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,040
course when he became the under

1093
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,359
secretary of defense for intelligence

1094
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:27,760
that was a whole other thing chris ran

1095
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,760
all the sap programs

1096
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:31,520
in the government he ran well actually

1097
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:33,680
in the military i should say he didn't

1098
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:36,880
know about this program about uh atip or

1099
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,480
asap didn't know about he wasn't happy

1100
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,560
so when he went to congress

1101
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,960
and he got congress briefed and then lou

1102
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:46,960
was able to arrange a lot of this too

1103
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:48,400
with the navy

1104
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:49,839
and don't forget

1105
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:52,400
this program you know that came out and

1106
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:53,839
when the new york times thing came out

1107
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,960
it was me

1108
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:57,119
lou

1109
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:58,240
chris

1110
00:41:04,069 --> 00:40:59,839
and uh

1111
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:04,079
help put off and met with leslie kane

1112
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,400
at the ritz carlton

1113
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:08,640
where we sort of

1114
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,400
let her know you know

1115
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,160
and uh she was

1116
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:13,760
taken aback

1117
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,240
um since we were all senior senior

1118
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:18,960
people and um so she had to take it

1119
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,440
seriously and i was i was dumbfounded

1120
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:23,599
but the new york times came out

1121
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:24,720
with that

1122
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,119
of course i told leslie

1123
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,280
and i i will answer your question john i

1124
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:31,680
promise but but uh we're getting there

1125
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,319
but i i remember when it came out on

1126
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,640
that fateful day um

1127
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,280
the story was wrong and i got a whole

1128
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:41,040
leslie and i said

1129
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,040
it's it's not about

1130
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:45,359
22 million dollars and pentagon has a

1131
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:46,880
ufo program

1132
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:49,040
it's about there's an entity out there

1133
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,480
there's some kind of non-human

1134
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:52,240
intelligence that's living with us on

1135
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:54,079
this [\h__\h] planet i'm sorry i'm

1136
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,839
getting all wound up

1137
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:57,920
in that story

1138
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,599
and she said they wouldn't let me run it

1139
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:01,680
like that

1140
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,000
and and it's still very very difficult

1141
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:06,000
so i give the new york times a lot of

1142
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,960
credit

1143
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:08,960
uh for running this story

1144
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,839
but for but for missing the big point

1145
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:13,280
we're not alone

1146
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,359
and we never have been alone

1147
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:17,599
and and and i think that's what what

1148
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:19,359
chris mellon got across when he got the

1149
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:20,319
navy

1150
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:25,839
little small program that

1151
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:28,240
that they they started because they were

1152
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:30,160
seeing all this stuff right on the east

1153
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:31,359
coast and the west coast and with the

1154
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:32,640
carrier groups

1155
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:33,520
and

1156
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,680
that's how this all started but that's

1157
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,280
that wasn't the real program i mean

1158
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:39,119
that's part of it you know

1159
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:40,000
um

1160
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:40,800
but

1161
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,960
when the congress saw the classified

1162
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,119
briefings

1163
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:47,599
saw what i saw

1164
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:48,560
they

1165
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,920
why weren't we told why did we know

1166
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:57,200
about this

1167
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:59,520
now john can attest to this this goes

1168
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,920
back away is this this this whole idea

1169
00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:03,359
of

1170
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:08,560
because i i personally believe that and

1171
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:10,400
i still believe to this day from what

1172
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:12,240
everything i know there are no answers

1173
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:13,599
in the sense that

1174
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:14,800
the government

1175
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:16,160
the ic

1176
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:19,200
in particular and and the military have

1177
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,680
no answers they really truly have no

1178
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:22,720
answers

1179
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:25,599
they may have

1180
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:30,800
but that doesn't mean they know what it

1181
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:33,760
is that they're holding

1182
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,720
that doesn't mean they understand this

1183
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:38,640
this is

1184
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:43,280
it was described to me as you know well

1185
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,760
very well beyond dark ken

1186
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,280
now a couple of people have come out

1187
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:48,960
recently and said well we're maybe like

1188
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:50,400
100 they're maybe a hundred years ahead

1189
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,760
of us

1190
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:52,800
nah

1191
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:55,359
i think like a lot more

1192
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:56,400
yeah i mean

1193
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,319
if this is this i mean these things i

1194
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,319
mean uaps are you when they talk about

1195
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:02,720
the nuts and bolts uaps aren't even a

1196
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:05,520
story at all uaps are just like a a

1197
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:06,640
sideshow

1198
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:09,280
this is stuff that shows up right but

1199
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:11,200
it's not it i mean it's a manifestation

1200
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,240
of it

1201
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:13,760
but you notice these things you know

1202
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,960
they're out there they're actually

1203
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,640
physical but then all of a sudden

1204
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,000
they're not physical this is what jock

1205
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,599
talks about you know flying objects they

1206
00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:20,800
say hell i don't even know if they're

1207
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:22,240
flying or they're objects because

1208
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:24,160
they're objects they're not objects you

1209
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:26,560
know they just disappear at will

1210
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:29,680
um they're able to do incredible stuff

1211
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:32,000
but are they just showing off

1212
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,240
are they just presenting us a show

1213
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:36,240
what's actually behind that is what

1214
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:37,520
really matters

1215
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:39,599
and when what's really behind that are

1216
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:41,680
the encounters what's really behind that

1217
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:43,520
and this is where i really credit lou

1218
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,800
and chris for making sure that the uh

1219
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:48,880
gillibrand amendment puts in the

1220
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:51,839
biological the social uh sociocultural

1221
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:54,079
and the psychological aspects of this

1222
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:55,760
because that's where this is that's

1223
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:57,680
where jacqueline talks a lot about

1224
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,000
that's what this is this is some kind of

1225
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:01,760
a control mechanism

1226
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,040
that seems to be guiding us somewhere or

1227
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,359
pushing us in some direction here so

1228
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,680
it's not about uaps uaps are a side show

1229
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,520
as far as i'm concerned uh but the

1230
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:13,040
military's interested in because wow

1231
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,640
they can do really cool stuff

1232
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:16,480
i remember steve justice looking at you

1233
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:18,400
know when we we were all watching the

1234
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:21,839
videos at tts headquarters in encinitas

1235
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,800
before the videos came out

1236
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,800
i remember chris i i mean i mean i asked

1237
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,079
uh um

1238
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:30,079
you know steve

1239
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,040
who

1240
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,440
probably had his hands on more

1241
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,599
super classified you know

1242
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:37,200
data being with the skunk works right

1243
00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:39,119
and and you know and he helped design

1244
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:40,000
all these

1245
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:42,000
aircraft and what have you

1246
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:44,079
and i said what did you think

1247
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,319
and he said i want to build it i want to

1248
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,000
build something that has that i mean a

1249
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:49,760
typical engineer right that's what i

1250
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:52,480
want to do i want to build that and he

1251
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,960
sketched out this really beautiful and i

1252
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,960
wish we were able to

1253
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:58,880
to do it but i don't think he's he's

1254
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:00,800
able to but he he sketched out this

1255
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,720
beautiful aircraft of what it would look

1256
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:04,400
like with any gravity

1257
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:06,160
a system put on it and things along

1258
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,079
those lines it was just absolutely gory

1259
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,040
he's very talented designer you know

1260
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,440
but yeah i mean that's um so i think

1261
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:15,440
there was a turning point you know and

1262
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,040
the turning point was

1263
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,960
the new york times article

1264
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:20,960
and then and then once that turning

1265
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,680
point hit then all the backstories you

1266
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:25,839
know all the people that were doing this

1267
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:28,400
for decades and devoted their lives to

1268
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:31,119
it the people whose shoulders we stand

1269
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,960
on right um these are the people that um

1270
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,800
came into focus then you know and then

1271
00:46:40,829 --> 00:46:38,880
they started talking more about it they

1272
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,839
they're helping push this thing forward

1273
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,200
so um

1274
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:45,520
just because john i you know my personal

1275
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,960
feeling is just because this has come

1276
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,560
out in the public and it's

1277
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:50,880
i don't think this is uh

1278
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:52,960
a harbinger of of you know

1279
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,319
the phenomenon coming becoming more you

1280
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:58,400
know

1281
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:00,079
uh

1282
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,760
more i mean we're we're getting to a

1283
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,440
point we're gonna be understanding i

1284
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:09,440
just don't i just think we just we just

1285
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,760
basically are talking about it more but

1286
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:13,920
i don't i don't see any

1287
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,319
any uh opening

1288
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,800
the only thing i will i will say um i've

1289
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:20,559
been in touch with the task force and

1290
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,559
what have you uh and they really are

1291
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,440
just truly getting started on this but

1292
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,760
they're primarily

1293
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:29,920
made up of scientists

1294
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,480
you know and and my point to them and i

1295
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,079
keep telling them

1296
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,240
you need religious scholars

1297
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:38,960
you need psychologists you need people

1298
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:41,760
with a very strong background in this

1299
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:43,280
that goes back

1300
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:45,119
you know you know two or three or four

1301
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:47,119
hundred years or two thousand years you

1302
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:48,720
gotta go back to sumerians right you

1303
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:50,000
gotta go back to all the ancient

1304
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:51,359
religious texts

1305
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:53,280
all this stuff has to be taken into

1306
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,480
account

1307
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:56,079
when you're looking at this phenomenon

1308
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,000
because it it's all there

1309
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,760
then you got to get some really powerful

1310
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:01,440
databases and i know this is what

1311
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,880
bigelow is doing with bass

1312
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,119
and i would love to have my hands on on

1313
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:09,200
those databases that they have

1314
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,319
uh and chuck valet designed them and uh

1315
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:14,319
and he's like you know it's a creme de

1316
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:16,400
la creme when it comes to that extremely

1317
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:17,520
bright man

1318
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:20,160
um but some of this stuff's already set

1319
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,640
up and ready to go i i'm hopeful

1320
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,920
hopefully

1321
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,280
um

1322
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,760
they might find something some a little

1323
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:29,200
little needle in the haystack or a

1324
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:30,640
little bit of signal in the noise you

1325
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:33,280
know that that we could start

1326
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,000
you know and then maybe get somewhere

1327
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:37,920
with this before before at the end of my

1328
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,000
lifetime you know

1329
00:48:44,549 --> 00:48:42,160
but i'm not holding my breath

1330
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,559
john is that answer you i i don't know

1331
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,040
thank you jim i'm a typical do officer

1332
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,480
john i you know

1333
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,160
i got a point here and i just go all

1334
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:52,319
over it and i'm all over the place and

1335
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:53,680
i'm back

1336
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:55,359
bob bigelow if you're listening please

1337
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:58,160
give jim semivan access to your database

1338
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,839
thank you very much this program is

1339
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,440
brought to you by caudate potamon

1340
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:03,680
chevrolet ohio's favorite chevrolet

1341
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:06,559
dealer and now on to uh

1342
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:10,079
on to our uav experiencer step

1343
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:12,319
jim and john what a surprise to see you

1344
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:14,079
so great to see you both

1345
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:16,079
uh yes so

1346
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:19,839
yeah i'm an experiencer as my title says

1347
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:23,680
and in 1985 my entire family had

1348
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,680
witnessed uap now

1349
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:27,680
we were in the aerospace business we

1350
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:29,440
actually provided the honeycomb pins to

1351
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,000
one of the apollo projects so

1352
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,040
at a very young age i had the proper

1353
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,880
knowledge of how to identify a

1354
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:39,280
helicopter an airplane a stealth bomber

1355
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,960
all all of these different things that

1356
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:43,119
we grew up with all of these models

1357
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,400
sitting around our

1358
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,640
business and so

1359
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,480
my concern is

1360
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:50,559
yes we've already established that uap

1361
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,880
are real now the general public outside

1362
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:54,160
of us

1363
00:49:57,829 --> 00:49:55,680
because i feel that we're a little bit

1364
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:57,839
different set aside from the people who

1365
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,599
aren't following the topic

1366
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:01,200
how would they

1367
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:04,480
now i not inundate the authorities after

1368
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,880
say they witness a satellite or a

1369
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,280
weather balloon how would they

1370
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:11,920
go ahead and report this to say an air

1371
00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:14,400
force base such as what my family had

1372
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:15,280
done

1373
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:16,000
we

1374
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:17,520
knew to report it to the proper

1375
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,359
authorities now how would you go about

1376
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,200
putting out say a public service

1377
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,359
announcement through the government

1378
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,839
stating these are weather balloons this

1379
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:30,240
is a satellite if you see these items

1380
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,800
please do not contact our office how

1381
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:36,000
would you go about initiating that so

1382
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:37,359
that people aren't

1383
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:41,119
inundated with false reports

1384
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:43,839
yeah wow

1385
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:46,400
short answers i don't know probably

1386
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,240
two or three times a week i uh

1387
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,920
sometimes through linkedin

1388
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,280
sometimes through

1389
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:55,359
you know people getting my email uh they

1390
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:56,880
will send me

1391
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:59,680
videos some really rather compelling

1392
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:00,640
videos

1393
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:03,920
mostly orbs sometimes you know

1394
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:06,960
you'll see like a saucer shaped object

1395
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:09,520
um and they'll some of them are in a

1396
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,119
panic they don't know what to do about

1397
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:13,200
it they're um you know and and you know

1398
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:15,040
and some families are involved and what

1399
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:16,000
have you

1400
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:16,960
um

1401
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:17,839
uh

1402
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:21,520
there's not a lot of literature on the

1403
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:22,480
orbs

1404
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:23,599
and um

1405
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:26,960
they are very dangerous and you know you

1406
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:27,839
you know

1407
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:29,359
don't invite them in i always like to

1408
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:32,240
say uh you know to get close

1409
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,839
say something to the orbs you know stay

1410
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:35,680
away or get in the house or get away

1411
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:38,240
from them they're quite dangerous

1412
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:39,040
uh

1413
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:40,720
and um you know they could be almost

1414
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,559
anything they have they have morph that

1415
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:44,319
we have a lot of literature on them

1416
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:45,680
morphing into

1417
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,839
ships

1418
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,280
coming together with other orbs things

1419
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,680
along those lines but there is no

1420
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:55,119
central clearinghouse for any of this

1421
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:57,440
mufon is the only place i mean i tell

1422
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:59,440
people to go to mufon

1423
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:00,960
um

1424
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:03,200
and do that

1425
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:05,359
tts has

1426
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,760
two databases uh one's called vault and

1427
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,599
one's called scout

1428
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:11,680
and uh essentially they're they're all

1429
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:13,119
built in there and they're you know the

1430
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:15,920
ai databases and um one of our board of

1431
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:18,400
advisors members uh actually developed

1432
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:19,599
these he's a

1433
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,720
big it guy from pricewaterhouse and he

1434
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:24,640
built these in conjunction with amazon

1435
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:27,359
and microsoft they're all built and what

1436
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:28,319
they were

1437
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,720
ready to do what we were ready to do was

1438
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,960
actually start accepting

1439
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,880
people's videos photographs things along

1440
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:36,880
those lines and we had a high degree of

1441
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,200
certainty that we would be able to run

1442
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:41,040
them through our databases and be able

1443
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:42,480
to tell whether they were real or not

1444
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:45,200
real and if they were real then we had

1445
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,559
our lines that were going to the

1446
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:48,480
government you know and but it would be

1447
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,319
all unclassified you know everybody

1448
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:52,240
would have access to it then we would

1449
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:54,480
have our own database on a website where

1450
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,839
people could actually go in and do their

1451
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:57,680
own research if they wanted to you know

1452
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:58,960
so you're not waiting for the government

1453
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,800
to do anything you're taking it on for

1454
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:02,000
yourself

1455
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:02,800
but

1456
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:06,319
when we had those set up and we went to

1457
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,040
the cloud services to find out

1458
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:11,920
uh when we can start and they told us

1459
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,319
the amount of money

1460
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,800
it was going to cost

1461
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,599
we simply we simply couldn't do it

1462
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:21,200
um

1463
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:23,520
let me give you an example here

1464
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,119
how difficult why this is so difficult

1465
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:30,000
and why is absolutely critical if we

1466
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:32,559
really want to go anyplace

1467
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:34,319
that we need to get some kind of

1468
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,319
institution set up i i had a uh

1469
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:40,160
a friend on linkedin tell me they're

1470
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:42,400
going to be starting one of these uh

1471
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:43,280
trying to start one of these

1472
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:45,359
institutions and then i had another a

1473
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:47,680
guy who contacted me on linkedin

1474
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:50,480
who was really sort of upset

1475
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:52,079
why we didn't have it already and he had

1476
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,599
these pretty good ideas of how they were

1477
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,960
going to do it and

1478
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,280
and i i told both of them you know i

1479
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,200
said look

1480
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:00,880
you don't know how much money this cost

1481
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:03,920
it is extraordinarily expensive yuri

1482
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,079
milner gave uh what seti a hundred

1483
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,319
million dollars over a period of 20 20

1484
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,480
years where he's going to fund you know

1485
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:12,720
so they're sitting i mean god bless them

1486
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:14,800
and i hope i hope they find something

1487
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:16,960
you know but you know i i would love to

1488
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:20,400
tell seth shostak they're here

1489
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:22,160
they're cute

1490
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,520
they're all here

1491
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:25,359
we can do something here

1492
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:28,079
he is a total skeptic

1493
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,680
i think a debunker actually because

1494
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:31,599
that's what he sounds like to me but um

1495
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,200
um

1496
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:35,520
you know he he's just not not going to

1497
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:38,799
go there but to actually get the data

1498
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:39,839
together

1499
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:42,400
structured and unstructured data

1500
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:44,720
and put it in you know uh you know into

1501
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,960
a forum where you're able to look at it

1502
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:48,720
um and then you have the right type of

1503
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,240
analyst you know you'd water john

1504
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,520
ramirez there you know what about a

1505
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:53,280
dozen john ramirez is there because he's

1506
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:54,480
really tagged

1507
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:56,319
and he's he knows they know what to do

1508
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,200
right

1509
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:59,520
and and and then you and you get some

1510
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:01,040
religious scholars and you get everybody

1511
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,480
in there and now you're paying all these

1512
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,160
people

1513
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:06,960
and uh you know you're looking at

1514
00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:10,160
a minimum you know maybe 10 to 15

1515
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,079
million per year

1516
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:14,400
and that's a small organization

1517
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:15,839
uh and then if it's going to be

1518
00:55:20,309 --> 00:55:18,160
interactive you need a website an

1519
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:20,319
interactive website

1520
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,160
one of the things we thought about was

1521
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,000
the possibility of crowdsourcing it

1522
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,280
where you would take a university

1523
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,200
and some universities now are allowing

1524
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:32,000
graduate students to specialize in uap

1525
00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:34,079
studies or in the phenomenon of things

1526
00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,680
along those lines

1527
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:37,599
and then be hiring grad students to do

1528
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,559
this you know run run the data through

1529
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:42,720
and do the research and what have you

1530
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:45,200
um but running data through a database

1531
00:55:47,829 --> 00:55:46,480
doesn't necessarily mean you're going to

1532
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,839
come up with an answer i mean you have

1533
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:49,440
to be careful about the data you

1534
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:51,280
actually send through and it has to

1535
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,359
coincide with the data you come that

1536
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:55,040
comes out in other words it's just not

1537
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,040
that simple it's a very very difficult

1538
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:59,359
task to actually get something that

1539
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,280
makes sense that you know you could put

1540
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,079
your imprimatur on it so that's what tts

1541
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,960
was supposed to be about and because we

1542
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,880
we became a public benefit corporation

1543
00:56:13,349 --> 00:56:10,400
because we

1544
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,359
we needed we wanted to donate 10 to 15

1545
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,119
of the money we would be making through

1546
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:16,880
entertainment or research or whatever

1547
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,960
the store is merchandising and throw

1548
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,400
that into the research and we thought

1549
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:22,240
that would be enough it's nowhere near

1550
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,400
enough nowhere near enough

1551
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,480
and then when we thought we would have

1552
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,799
all these investors coming in we did we

1553
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:30,640
got 4 000 investors but they're all mom

1554
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:32,319
and pop investors for the best part you

1555
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,640
know 500 300

1556
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:36,799
it's great to have them on board but we

1557
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:38,720
don't we need we need so much more than

1558
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:40,559
that and that was an eye-opener for me

1559
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,640
and for tom and tom had already put

1560
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:44,559
millions into this you know company

1561
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,839
already and you know what i mean and i

1562
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,760
told him don't don't

1563
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,000
you can't do any more i mean it's just

1564
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:51,760
yeah unless we have something big

1565
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,280
happening and we're but

1566
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:55,119
we're working on it and we have some

1567
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:57,839
stuff going on so i i'm very optimistic

1568
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:00,720
uh that we might see some uh but what we

1569
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,040
do need something

1570
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:05,520
um like you know abby every lobe right

1571
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,319
he started the galileo project

1572
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:10,079
i'd be very curious to see how much

1573
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:11,440
money he has

1574
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:12,960
and i'll guarantee you he doesn't have

1575
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:14,079
much

1576
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:15,599
he doesn't have anything near what he

1577
00:57:20,230 --> 00:57:17,920
when he needs to do to put these uap

1578
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:20,240
sensors and telescopes where he wants to

1579
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:23,440
put them uh if he did do it

1580
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,720
i was going to mention avi also go ahead

1581
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:28,400
i'm going to say avi can you please send

1582
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,440
your balance sheets to uh jim semivan

1583
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:33,839
please so you can take a look so we got

1584
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,480
uh we got uh robert bass we got our

1585
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,040
bigelow and we got avi you guys owe some

1586
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:41,599
material to jim semivan uh but anyway

1587
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:44,960
jim uh regarding the orbs uh and is for

1588
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:47,119
the danger associated with them do you

1589
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:49,119
think like perhaps like the little spray

1590
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:50,960
bottle to get the cat off your leather

1591
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,599
sofa would that work against the orbs do

1592
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:54,960
you think

1593
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:57,280
no i'm kidding all right

1594
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:58,559
all right

1595
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:00,720
we have we only we don't have that much

1596
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:02,640
time left with you

1597
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,960
so we want to do some quick hitters here

1598
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:05,920
to get

1599
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:07,839
a couple more questions can we do like

1600
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:10,480
sort of a rapid fire-ish round

1601
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,280
okay

1602
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:13,839
uh unless you're going to give us more

1603
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:14,960
than one hour

1604
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:16,319
so that's something i could probably

1605
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:18,640
give you you know another 15 or 20

1606
00:58:22,630 --> 00:58:20,240
minutes all right that that'll really

1607
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,640
help out uh but but we'll we'll still

1608
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:24,160
try to get it rapid because i know

1609
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,920
nathan's got more stuff i mean we have

1610
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,200
the religious scholar we have the

1611
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:29,760
analyst down below i can analyze flight

1612
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,359
characteristics we're ready to build

1613
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:33,440
this database man we got it

1614
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:36,559
um but anyway jim so uh a friend of ours

1615
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,920
uh vinnie adams who i know you're

1616
00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:39,839
familiar with of disclosure team and

1617
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:41,680
british journalist professor david

1618
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,160
clarke put out the amazing calvin photo

1619
00:58:50,230 --> 00:58:47,280
of kraft uh clark was quoted in newsweek

1620
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:50,240
as saying uh aurora uh top secret

1621
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:53,200
recronstance aircraft uh which us was

1622
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,040
rumored to be building in the 1980s

1623
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:57,359
though was never any evidence of such a

1624
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:58,559
project and the us government has

1625
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:00,640
consistently denied

1626
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,400
its existence

1627
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:04,960
jim you saw that photo

1628
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:06,880
what and so some people are saying it's

1629
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,599
black us tech and i'm curious what your

1630
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:11,280
take is on that

1631
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:13,839
um i don't have an opinion on it um

1632
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:16,000
uh the way i look at photos is i need

1633
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,599
you know an optical physicist to look at

1634
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:19,200
that and tell me that it's real that's

1635
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,240
that's what i

1636
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:22,079
i would say this is one of the reasons

1637
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:24,079
why we wanted to start scott scout and

1638
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,079
vault so we can actually look at it and

1639
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,119
say yes that is absolutely real and and

1640
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,520
um and you know because you know as you

1641
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:32,960
know i mean there have there haven't

1642
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:35,440
been very many very clear pictures

1643
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,040
of uh of uh uaps now if you talk to

1644
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,040
robert hastings and he'll tell you that

1645
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,640
you know there have been instances where

1646
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:44,559
they have flown over you know

1647
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:46,960
nuclear test points and people have

1648
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:49,520
taken pictures up up close and personal

1649
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:50,480
um

1650
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:51,520
i had

1651
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:53,280
had an interesting you know but you know

1652
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:54,880
and robert you know hastings always

1653
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:57,040
talks about the mia response right and

1654
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:57,760
and

1655
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:59,359
it's like

1656
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,520
it's how people who have cameras around

1657
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,200
their neck and don't end up taking

1658
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:04,799
pictures of them or

1659
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:06,079
you you're driving down the road and

1660
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:10,559
everybody sees a ufo and uh or uap and

1661
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:12,079
they go wow and then they get back in

1662
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:14,559
the car and they don't talk about it

1663
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:16,720
you know and and and and is what robert

1664
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:18,400
calls in response and it's happened to

1665
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:19,760
me i mean when my wife and i had our

1666
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:21,040
experience

1667
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,200
i mean my wife was very ill after that

1668
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:25,200
so we were focusing on that but after

1669
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,640
that we were like

1670
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:29,359
you know it wasn't something we were

1671
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:31,920
running with their hair on fire it just

1672
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:34,319
20 some years you know over 20 years it

1673
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:36,160
took us to really you know sort of focus

1674
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:37,040
on it

1675
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,839
so

1676
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:38,880
you know

1677
01:00:42,309 --> 01:00:40,799
and i always tell tom this too i said

1678
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,319
you know everybody has a narrative

1679
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,960
everybody wants to tell you a story

1680
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:46,720
their story and that story is probably

1681
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,680
true

1682
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:49,520
but all it is is a narrative i mean you

1683
01:00:53,349 --> 01:00:51,200
can't take it to court

1684
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,359
it's essentially hearsay

1685
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:55,359
it's it's subjective

1686
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,559
um

1687
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:58,160
science

1688
01:01:01,990 --> 01:00:59,920
is too

1689
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:02,000
too closed off

1690
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:05,680
to accept something like that anecdotes

1691
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:06,400
so

1692
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:08,880
where you go to with that is where where

1693
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:11,119
like jock goes to and some of these

1694
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:12,720
anthropologists talk about the

1695
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:14,240
field-centric model you know you have to

1696
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,680
go where it is

1697
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:17,119
because it's not reliable and it's not

1698
01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:19,040
predictable right so you know so what do

1699
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,319
you do with that well you do what jane

1700
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:22,319
goodall did you know you sit there and

1701
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:22,960
you

1702
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:25,440
watch the apes right and then right

1703
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,640
but where the hell are you going to sit

1704
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,079
there and watch it so what you know and

1705
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:30,160
with jock's new book with paulo harris

1706
01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:32,799
you know trinity was beautifully done i

1707
01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,720
mean that's exactly what you need to do

1708
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:36,319
i mean he went in there and he and paula

1709
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:37,920
and they basically spent all the time

1710
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,680
they needed and they came out they

1711
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:41,200
didn't come up with answers per se but

1712
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:43,359
they did come up with with a lot of good

1713
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:46,160
data and i think that's where the future

1714
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,000
is in all of this

1715
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:51,119
um is really mining the data and then

1716
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:53,119
verifying the data

1717
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:59,190
that i am

1718
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:00,400
hoping

1719
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:02,640
that the photographs

1720
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:05,359
that there that there are that do exist

1721
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:06,559
in the government

1722
01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:07,920
up close

1723
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:10,400
do come out um you know you're hoping

1724
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,799
for that but think about that for a

1725
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:14,480
second

1726
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:16,640
you know right now

1727
01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:18,079
i was talking to somebody the other day

1728
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:19,599
about this and and you know they were

1729
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:21,200
asking me well

1730
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:22,480
why isn't this

1731
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,920
like you know because i hadn't mentioned

1732
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:25,520
i had said i always say it's a story of

1733
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:27,440
the millennia and people say well why

1734
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:30,079
isn't you know and you know i live in a

1735
01:02:35,829 --> 01:02:32,000
little neighborhood here you know

1736
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,839
much old people nobody is interested in

1737
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:40,549
um you walk into a room with a hundred

1738
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,119
people you might get one or two people

1739
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:45,200
that have heard about it

1740
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:47,359
but this little bubble we live in you

1741
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:48,640
know they talk about liberal bubbles

1742
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:49,920
conservative bubbles and all those kind

1743
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,240
of stuff this is the uap bubble

1744
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:54,640
it's not that many people and

1745
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:57,359
um and it's just

1746
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,280
it it's not i mean john alexander used

1747
01:03:02,390 --> 01:03:01,280
to talk about this he said it's not on

1748
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:02,400
the

1749
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:10,319
worried about you know inflation taxes

1750
01:03:16,710 --> 01:03:12,960
their kids you know health issues things

1751
01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:16,720
along those lines uaps phenomenon

1752
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:19,200
it's just it's just not there

1753
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:21,280
the they get a kick out of it i think

1754
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:22,880
reading about it and they're fascinated

1755
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:24,880
by it you know like yeah but it's like

1756
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,640
not high on their list you know they're

1757
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,440
not going to give money to it and um um

1758
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:31,359
congress is willing to give the you know

1759
01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:34,319
uh uh the task force money

1760
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,520
but i will tell you i know what the

1761
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:37,440
budget is and it's not that much you

1762
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:38,240
know

1763
01:03:41,670 --> 01:03:39,839
right not that much

1764
01:03:43,829 --> 01:03:41,680
um the only good thing that came out of

1765
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:43,839
that was there's more than one task

1766
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:44,880
force

1767
01:03:48,789 --> 01:03:46,559
and everybody wants to get involved in

1768
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:48,799
it and uh because

1769
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:50,240
the money's there

1770
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:52,640
but they're gonna they're gonna get free

1771
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:54,240
they're gonna get free uh data

1772
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:55,839
collection from the army the navy the

1773
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,680
air force even the marine corps from all

1774
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,440
their sensor systems you just put it out

1775
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:01,440
there you will collect you will turn

1776
01:04:05,349 --> 01:04:03,920
that into intel when you land and so

1777
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:05,359
that's free they don't have to field

1778
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:08,799
systems like uh avilab has to right

1779
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:11,920
right exactly exactly but you know i i

1780
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:12,799
um

1781
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:15,039
what i really am hoping for is

1782
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,829
that we'll come to this ability where we

1783
01:04:23,750 --> 01:04:22,240
we come in and you have the phenomenon

1784
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:23,760
and you know the whole and then you

1785
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,520
subdivide it up into the in various

1786
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:27,599
sections you know the contact

1787
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,880
experiences the abduction experiences um

1788
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,359
um you know the uh

1789
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:35,520
the possibility of different types of

1790
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:39,119
aliens uh the you know the whole idea

1791
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:40,960
like with john's john's case you know

1792
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:43,280
being contacted very young and having

1793
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:45,359
that sort of continue through i mean

1794
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:46,960
when you look at that i mean that to me

1795
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:49,039
is probably one of the most fascinating

1796
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:51,039
aspects of the abduction experience or

1797
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:53,920
the contact experience uh generational

1798
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:56,240
my my mother-in-law my wife's mother you

1799
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:57,760
know is uh

1800
01:05:02,230 --> 01:04:59,599
i don't know probably about 30 or 40

1801
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:02,240
cherokee indian but i remember when i

1802
01:05:05,190 --> 01:05:04,400
first met her i mean she telling us you

1803
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:05,200
know

1804
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:06,960
she would point up and she's a very

1805
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,200
sound woman you know very smart woman

1806
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:11,520
yeah you know i was i i know i have

1807
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:13,280
babies up there you know you know and

1808
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:15,280
she had these experiences

1809
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:18,240
and and and and and um uh so i mean it

1810
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:20,400
doesn't run in families i don't know but

1811
01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:22,160
you look at this you know you know chris

1812
01:05:26,710 --> 01:05:23,920
bledsoe part of chris bledsoe's story

1813
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:26,720
you know you know encompasses um this

1814
01:05:30,710 --> 01:05:28,640
little fascinating

1815
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:30,720
uh thing with the lady right you know

1816
01:05:35,109 --> 01:05:32,319
where this uh

1817
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:35,119
like uh blessed virgin mary type figure

1818
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:36,480
that definitely was not the blessed

1819
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:37,760
virgin mary

1820
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:39,920
uh you know shows up knocks him on his

1821
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:41,920
ass well he gets knocked on his ass by a

1822
01:05:44,950 --> 01:05:43,039
bull like

1823
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:44,960
it wasn't really a bull was it but it

1824
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,200
came out of the woods behind his house

1825
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:48,960
and i was at his house and i saw it and

1826
01:05:54,069 --> 01:05:51,280
knocked him down and then as he turned

1827
01:05:56,309 --> 01:05:54,079
up to pick up this this vision of a lady

1828
01:05:58,950 --> 01:05:56,319
you know three feet high blonde hair

1829
01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:58,960
blue eyes you know all in white the same

1830
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:01,359
exact lady that showed up at fatima

1831
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:02,640
right

1832
01:06:07,349 --> 01:06:05,520
and if you read jeffrey uh cripel's book

1833
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:07,359
you know authors of the impossible in

1834
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:09,359
the conclusion he talks a lot about that

1835
01:06:13,029 --> 01:06:11,760
about fatima and actually what was what

1836
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:13,039
was written

1837
01:06:16,950 --> 01:06:14,960
and there's a lot of redaction done by

1838
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:16,960
you know the churches and

1839
01:06:22,150 --> 01:06:18,960
culture you know where they say you know

1840
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:22,160
uh you know lucia and and and uh who

1841
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:23,520
actually you know the

1842
01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:24,880
the kids they never said it was a

1843
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:27,039
blessed virgin mary right it was the

1844
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:29,680
lady and she described exactly how chris

1845
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:31,440
bledsoe described it

1846
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:33,280
and there were government people who

1847
01:06:36,950 --> 01:06:34,880
came to visit chris

1848
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:36,960
we're very interested in the lady and i

1849
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:39,200
know these government people and they

1850
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:40,720
they wanted to know more about it from

1851
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:43,839
chris because they have seen her before

1852
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:51,829
oh terry loveless no not terry love this

1853
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:53,920
another one it was a beautifully written

1854
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:56,960
book uh about a young couple

1855
01:06:59,990 --> 01:06:58,640
and they go out and they've had

1856
01:07:02,069 --> 01:07:00,000
experiences that turned out their whole

1857
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,079
life but they went camping and they had

1858
01:07:06,309 --> 01:07:04,319
this incredible experience out in the

1859
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:06,319
desert damn i wish i could remember it

1860
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:08,559
it was written by a guy named paul

1861
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:10,720
roberts something or other i got it here

1862
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:12,880
somewhere anyway but what the

1863
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:14,319
interesting thing was is they were being

1864
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:16,000
taken up into the ship you know they had

1865
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:17,359
the small grays and they had the look

1866
01:07:21,029 --> 01:07:19,599
what whitley calls the uh cobalts you

1867
01:07:23,109 --> 01:07:21,039
know these little pieces of crap about

1868
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,119
that high really mean and then they had

1869
01:07:27,589 --> 01:07:25,119
the tall grays and then as the pickup

1870
01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:27,599
truck was being taken up i mean the lady

1871
01:07:32,309 --> 01:07:30,720
again appeared right

1872
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:32,319
and told them it was all going to be you

1873
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:33,599
know okay

1874
01:07:39,029 --> 01:07:36,079
wow very very strange stuff

1875
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:39,039
so i mean but to have uh you know uh be

1876
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:41,520
able to have a a

1877
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:43,520
an organization that would deal with

1878
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:45,520
that with that one aspect of it what

1879
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:47,839
does that mean uh you know what's

1880
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:50,880
why the lady uh and uh you know or

1881
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:53,119
you know i mean ingo swan supposedly

1882
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:54,799
said um

1883
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:57,119
i think hal told me this um

1884
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:57,920
that

1885
01:08:01,990 --> 01:08:00,319
the lady you know you know appears on

1886
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:02,000
the the far side of the moon you know

1887
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:03,359
what the hell that means i don't know

1888
01:08:07,589 --> 01:08:06,240
but that's where when ingo went out and

1889
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:07,599
ra actually i think in his book

1890
01:08:12,789 --> 01:08:10,880
penetration he he went out and um he

1891
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,799
actually saw the aliens

1892
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,480
there on the farm

1893
01:08:18,870 --> 01:08:16,319
they basically looked at him and said

1894
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:18,880
get the hell out you know

1895
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:19,839
he did

1896
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:22,799
right smartly got out right you know so

1897
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,480
i'm sorry once again i'm rambling taking

1898
01:08:28,870 --> 01:08:26,719
up your time go ahead no that's okay uh

1899
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:28,880
we have a religious scholar here uh

1900
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:31,920
nathan why the lady in white

1901
01:08:36,309 --> 01:08:34,080
well it's a great question uh it's a

1902
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:36,319
recurring motif and i think there is

1903
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:38,560
something to that um

1904
01:08:41,189 --> 01:08:39,679
there's a

1905
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:41,199
gym it would take a long time to unpack

1906
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:42,640
all of that i think right

1907
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:45,520
um i i think i'd be remiss in my duty

1908
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:47,520
here if i didn't

1909
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:49,839
defer some of my time to john

1910
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,000
who has so graciously offered to join us

1911
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:54,159
this evening um john i know you've got

1912
01:08:57,669 --> 01:08:56,000
some questions for jim and i love this

1913
01:09:01,749 --> 01:08:57,679
conversation we'd love to keep it going

1914
01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:05,990
hope you're on mute though sir

1915
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:08,159
i was monitoring the comments coming

1916
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:10,400
through and i saw one of a particular

1917
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:12,239
interest because there's a lot of

1918
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:15,279
misconception about how cia does things

1919
01:09:20,309 --> 01:09:17,359
and this has related to

1920
01:09:22,870 --> 01:09:20,319
like not crash retrievals of craft but

1921
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:22,880
foreign technology in general jim

1922
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:25,839
how would the cia go about

1923
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:27,920
collecting foreign technology and how

1924
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:30,400
does it get delivered so that it's used

1925
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:31,440
to

1926
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:32,880
the government whether it be the

1927
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:35,279
department of defense or if it's highly

1928
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:38,400
technical to academia for example uh we

1929
01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:41,600
read and philip corso's book that that

1930
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:44,319
allegedly occurred with materials from

1931
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:45,359
roswell

1932
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,040
but

1933
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:49,520
how is that done i mean if something

1934
01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:52,080
crashed in a foreign country

1935
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:54,159
and of course we operate overseas in

1936
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,760
foreign countries we have relationships

1937
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:57,920
with our partners overseas if something

1938
01:10:02,390 --> 01:10:00,159
unusual crashed um

1939
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:02,400
and it doesn't seem to be from this

1940
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:04,640
planet what's the process of getting

1941
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:07,280
that to where it needs to go

1942
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:10,719
yeah that well depending if we had a uh

1943
01:10:14,229 --> 01:10:12,400
we would all pretend if we had a

1944
01:10:16,790 --> 01:10:14,239
relationship with the country and the

1945
01:10:18,470 --> 01:10:16,800
country allowed us to actually go in

1946
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:18,480
on their sovereign territory and

1947
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:20,320
actually you know and pick up something

1948
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:23,920
and take it away um uh it was five eyes

1949
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:24,800
you know

1950
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,320
one of the five eyes i don't think that

1951
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,480
would be a problem at all uh i think we

1952
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:30,239
would we would then share the data with

1953
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:31,280
whoever

1954
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,159
but

1955
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:34,080
whatever would be that crash that would

1956
01:10:36,790 --> 01:10:35,280
be taken

1957
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:36,800
um it would it would probably go

1958
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,760
immediately to the military and um uh

1959
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:41,600
and then there there's any number of

1960
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,040
military uh uh institutes and or

1961
01:10:51,669 --> 01:10:48,880
defense contractors that work with the

1962
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:51,679
military i'm thinking about patel you

1963
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:52,719
know

1964
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:54,159
any one of the five major defense

1965
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,400
contractors sometimes smaller

1966
01:10:59,910 --> 01:10:58,000
contractors but it would go it would

1967
01:11:01,990 --> 01:10:59,920
probably go to ftd first you know

1968
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:02,000
foreign technology division at right

1969
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:04,080
path or or some place depending on what

1970
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:05,360
it was and then and then the

1971
01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:06,960
intelligence community would be brought

1972
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:07,760
in

1973
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:10,000
uh cia uh

1974
01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:11,760
in particular would be brought in with

1975
01:11:16,790 --> 01:11:14,159
dia

1976
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:16,800
and try to analyze it but

1977
01:11:22,310 --> 01:11:20,080
uh once again when you're dealing with

1978
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:22,320
extremely exotic

1979
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:24,080
technology and it doesn't have to be

1980
01:11:26,870 --> 01:11:25,520
uaps

1981
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:26,880
um

1982
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:28,560
you you

1983
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,120
it tends to be highly classified because

1984
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:33,040
you don't want your you know you don't

1985
01:11:36,470 --> 01:11:34,800
want your enemies seeing that or even

1986
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:36,480
knowing that you have it

1987
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:39,199
uh so that is going to be hidden and you

1988
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:40,400
know now

1989
01:11:45,030 --> 01:11:42,719
here's here's the problem of all this

1990
01:11:46,870 --> 01:11:45,040
if it's exotic technology i mean if it's

1991
01:11:48,950 --> 01:11:46,880
a crash saucer

1992
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:48,960
all right it's not just the technology

1993
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:51,520
you know it's the fact that

1994
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:53,360
we're living here with you know

1995
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,600
non-human entities right and i think

1996
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,280
that's what makes everybody mad right

1997
01:12:01,030 --> 01:11:59,679
and the public mad and saying like well

1998
01:12:01,990 --> 01:12:01,040
well hell you know what i mean we want

1999
01:12:03,270 --> 01:12:02,000
to know if we're not alone in the

2000
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:03,280
universe right

2001
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:04,560
but then the military's saying well how

2002
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:06,960
the hell will i tell them

2003
01:12:10,709 --> 01:12:08,880
how do i tell them that okay that we're

2004
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:10,719
not all alone in the universe uh but i

2005
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:11,760
can't prove it to them because i can't

2006
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,960
show them the technology i've shown the

2007
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:14,239
technology the russians will know we

2008
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:15,040
have it

2009
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,320
and then the russians are doing

2010
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:18,159
everything in their power to get it uh

2011
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:19,840
and you know and there's an imbalance

2012
01:12:25,270 --> 01:12:21,280
there and all this kind of stuff so it's

2013
01:12:27,430 --> 01:12:25,280
it's a delicate type type rope um um uh

2014
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:27,440
i think

2015
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:29,520
you know

2016
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:32,320
i really think that the idea of hiding

2017
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:33,360
this

2018
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:36,480
is not a good one uh i think

2019
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:39,280
that the people deserve to know

2020
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:41,760
that yeah that trumps everything as far

2021
01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:44,080
as i'm concerned i mean we have to know

2022
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:46,000
this and if the government has us the

2023
01:12:48,709 --> 01:12:47,120
government really should come out and

2024
01:12:50,229 --> 01:12:48,719
tell us and they they should also be

2025
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:50,239
honest with us and say well we can't

2026
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:51,920
show you anything

2027
01:12:54,790 --> 01:12:53,600
and here's the reason why and just be

2028
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:54,800
honest

2029
01:13:01,189 --> 01:12:59,280
if that's possible

2030
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:01,199
now we know that the soviets you know or

2031
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:03,120
the back when it was the soviets and

2032
01:13:07,910 --> 01:13:04,960
before 91 they had their own what they

2033
01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:07,920
called the thread 3 program

2034
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:10,080
and if you ever saw the data on that you

2035
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,760
know i was i was familiar with some of

2036
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:14,239
the institutes that were working on that

2037
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,400
um

2038
01:13:20,630 --> 01:13:18,320
very legitimate i thought just george

2039
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:20,640
knapp pulled these things out in 91 you

2040
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:22,320
know he got it from a

2041
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:24,480
kgb from a journalist who got it from a

2042
01:13:29,750 --> 01:13:26,640
kgb officer and they look absolutely

2043
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:29,760
real so i i i believe they are credible

2044
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:33,280
um so um yeah there's there's all kind

2045
01:13:37,830 --> 01:13:35,360
of there's all kind of issues with that

2046
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:37,840
but cia doesn't i mean there's there's

2047
01:13:43,270 --> 01:13:41,520
no cabal you know uh you know out there

2048
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:43,280
when you work for the government and you

2049
01:13:47,669 --> 01:13:46,000
guys well you know this dj these are

2050
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:47,679
good people generally they're good

2051
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:50,640
people they're smart people and and um

2052
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:52,400
they're trying to figure this out and

2053
01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:54,400
they're trying to figure out what to do

2054
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:56,080
with this and somebody's saying oh

2055
01:13:58,830 --> 01:13:57,360
they're all going to go to jail because

2056
01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:58,840
i've known this for seven

2057
01:14:02,229 --> 01:14:00,560
years intelligence failure and all this

2058
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:02,239
kind of stuff well yeah maybe it's an

2059
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:03,520
intelligence failure but i don't know

2060
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:05,040
how much of an intelligence failure it

2061
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,960
is if you actually pick up a downed

2062
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:08,880
craft and you have no damn idea what it

2063
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,960
is you don't know how it works you don't

2064
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:12,800
know anything about it you can't figure

2065
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:14,640
out any material on it you don't you

2066
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:16,080
don't know anything you can knock on it

2067
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,400
right you could you don't know you know

2068
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:20,159
and you you look it maybe you find a

2069
01:14:25,189 --> 01:14:23,440
propulsion system and you haven't a clue

2070
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:25,199
how it works and not only do you have

2071
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:27,120
not a clue you haven't had a clue for 70

2072
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:28,800
years

2073
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:31,040
so how is that an intelligence failure

2074
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:32,880
in a sense what are they supposed to do

2075
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,480
i mean

2076
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,080
yeah you know we

2077
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:38,000
yeah we what we have is a you know

2078
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:40,320
essentially a big pile of something over

2079
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:41,120
here

2080
01:14:46,470 --> 01:14:42,960
and it's clearly an awful lot of planet

2081
01:14:48,390 --> 01:14:46,480
but we don't know how it works

2082
01:14:50,310 --> 01:14:48,400
if i can tangent off of this because you

2083
01:14:52,149 --> 01:14:50,320
were you were just there with with what

2084
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,159
you were speaking with john

2085
01:14:56,630 --> 01:14:54,400
what level of disclosure does jim

2086
01:14:59,350 --> 01:14:56,640
semivan think is appropriate at this

2087
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:59,360
particular point in time

2088
01:15:01,669 --> 01:15:00,239
um

2089
01:15:02,950 --> 01:15:01,679
don't forget we're all looking at this

2090
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:02,960
um

2091
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,320
you know i mean most people are looking

2092
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,760
at this from zero

2093
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:07,760
the altitude you know to zero and then

2094
01:15:11,430 --> 01:15:09,280
maybe i'm looking at it and john's

2095
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:11,440
looking at it based on what we may know

2096
01:15:14,709 --> 01:15:13,120
you know some of the corollary data

2097
01:15:17,189 --> 01:15:14,719
associated with it we're maybe at the

2098
01:15:20,229 --> 01:15:17,199
3000 foot level right maybe 4 000 foot

2099
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:20,239
level but i know there's a 50 50 000

2100
01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:21,360
foot level

2101
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:23,440
and you know you get into a lot of

2102
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:26,880
trouble when you start saying things

2103
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:28,640
like you start second guessing other

2104
01:15:32,390 --> 01:15:30,560
people about whether they should do

2105
01:15:33,590 --> 01:15:32,400
something or not do something i'd like

2106
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:33,600
to give the government the benefit of

2107
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:38,070
on this issue because it's so

2108
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:39,520
complicated

2109
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:41,679
um i do know uh

2110
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:44,560
that there were

2111
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:46,719
there were times when

2112
01:15:49,990 --> 01:15:49,120
groups of people would get together

2113
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,000
um

2114
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:52,800
to talk about this on whether or not

2115
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:54,159
they should let

2116
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:54,880
what

2117
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:00,159
and the the conversations always ended

2118
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:01,840
up saying no

2119
01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:04,640
uh they they felt they really honestly

2120
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:05,920
felt no

2121
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:06,719
now

2122
01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:12,149
let me go back to that original

2123
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:14,239
statement i told you earlier

2124
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:15,920
people

2125
01:16:19,910 --> 01:16:17,280
nobody ca

2126
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:19,920
this isn't a big topic with most people

2127
01:16:25,750 --> 01:16:24,000
right and and you know the

2128
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:25,760
you know i i was reading these

2129
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:27,920
unbelievable statistics

2130
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:30,159
about people 46 percent of the american

2131
01:16:32,830 --> 01:16:32,000
populous you know reads it's a sixth

2132
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:32,840
grade

2133
01:16:37,110 --> 01:16:35,280
level um

2134
01:16:37,950 --> 01:16:37,120
their idea of

2135
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:37,960
uh

2136
01:16:44,070 --> 01:16:40,800
extraterrestrials or the phenomena is

2137
01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:44,080
e.t you know ouch

2138
01:16:47,110 --> 01:16:46,159
or what they got on independence day

2139
01:16:50,149 --> 01:16:47,120
right

2140
01:16:51,270 --> 01:16:50,159
um and then you're gonna tell them

2141
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:51,280
you're gonna come out and you're gonna

2142
01:16:55,030 --> 01:16:53,360
tell them okay everything you know about

2143
01:16:56,070 --> 01:16:55,040
god uh everything you know about your

2144
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:56,080
church

2145
01:17:00,070 --> 01:16:57,920
and how things work you know that you

2146
01:17:02,470 --> 01:17:00,080
were brought up with through generation

2147
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:02,480
after generation after generation

2148
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:05,280
is woefully inadequate has nothing to do

2149
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:07,199
with this as a matter of fact

2150
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:09,040
you're living in a where you're living

2151
01:17:12,470 --> 01:17:10,800
in a in a place

2152
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,480
that there is another entity out there

2153
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:14,400
that we can't define

2154
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:15,360
that we

2155
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:17,040
we have no relationship with that

2156
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:19,040
basically could come can come in and out

2157
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:21,520
of your life at will

2158
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:24,640
and do whatever the hell it wants

2159
01:17:28,550 --> 01:17:26,400
you think about that for a second the

2160
01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:28,560
president comes on and he says i can't

2161
01:17:31,510 --> 01:17:30,080
defend against it because i don't know

2162
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:31,520
what it is

2163
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:33,600
um we see it

2164
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:35,360
is it existential well it hasn't done

2165
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:37,040
anything yet existential threat it

2166
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:38,560
hasn't done anything yet well i haven't

2167
01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:40,000
done anything yet doesn't mean it's not

2168
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:42,000
an existential threat

2169
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:49,430
that i mean

2170
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:51,920
that's just a lot to digest uh for any

2171
01:17:55,510 --> 01:17:54,000
any human being and particularly if it

2172
01:17:57,510 --> 01:17:55,520
you know it's on all the news stations

2173
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:57,520
and all of a sudden will people panic

2174
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:00,000
some people will uh will you guys panic

2175
01:18:04,229 --> 01:18:02,960
no no you won't you're used to this

2176
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:04,239
but again we're living in a little

2177
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:05,360
bubble here

2178
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:06,560
um

2179
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:07,840
i know

2180
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,960
you know

2181
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:10,560
i go to the nursing home to visit my

2182
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:12,239
mother-in-law and you start talking with

2183
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:14,880
some of these older patients there and

2184
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:15,679
they

2185
01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:20,800
in

2186
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:25,840
it's not gonna it's not gonna play well

2187
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,480
you know it will play well

2188
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:30,880
it's better to say that uh uh kim and

2189
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:32,480
kanye just broke up

2190
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:35,040
and the paper towels the the brawny pack

2191
01:18:40,229 --> 01:18:37,760
of 12 down at sam's club is on sale

2192
01:18:42,390 --> 01:18:40,239
uh nathan you

2193
01:18:44,070 --> 01:18:42,400
this is how people live their lives

2194
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:44,080
right and they're not particularly

2195
01:18:49,270 --> 01:18:47,760
intrepid at all and they're not thinkers

2196
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:49,280
you know in a sense forward thinking

2197
01:18:52,790 --> 01:18:50,719
they don't deal with this they don't

2198
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:52,800
want to deal with this they want to have

2199
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:55,520
what they have that's why we get who we

2200
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:56,400
get

2201
01:19:00,149 --> 01:18:58,719
in politics right

2202
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:00,159
that's the only people who want to do it

2203
01:19:04,310 --> 01:19:02,880
i'm not going to say anything else but

2204
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:04,320
do you guys mind if i just make a

2205
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:06,640
comment real quick um i just wanted to

2206
01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:08,880
comment we talked about all the reasons

2207
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:11,600
why we haven't disclosed because it

2208
01:19:15,270 --> 01:19:13,760
could be harmful but i really am

2209
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:15,280
starting to feel

2210
01:19:19,830 --> 01:19:17,760
not disclosing has been more harmful

2211
01:19:22,149 --> 01:19:19,840
because we are not preparing people for

2212
01:19:25,030 --> 01:19:22,159
the medical issues and we are certainly

2213
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:25,040
not preparing our therapeutic and mental

2214
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:27,440
health people for the psychological

2215
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,320
issues connected to this phenomenon so

2216
01:19:35,590 --> 01:19:33,040
if anyone who is listening

2217
01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:35,600
who's working on this is hearing me

2218
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:38,239
please be aware that as a mental health

2219
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:40,400
practitioner i would really appreciate

2220
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:43,040
more honesty so that we can prepare

2221
01:19:47,270 --> 01:19:45,920
the mental health professionals to help

2222
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:47,280
thank you

2223
01:19:50,229 --> 01:19:48,080
that

2224
01:19:52,709 --> 01:19:50,239
you know it's really funny i mean even

2225
01:19:54,149 --> 01:19:52,719
though everything i just said

2226
01:19:56,390 --> 01:19:54,159
let me let me tell you what chris mellon

2227
01:19:57,510 --> 01:19:56,400
told me once uh he's a very very bright

2228
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:57,520
guy

2229
01:20:02,390 --> 01:20:00,239
and we were talking about this and we

2230
01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:02,400
we were talking about this whole idea it

2231
01:20:05,990 --> 01:20:04,480
was me

2232
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:06,000
kit

2233
01:20:10,629 --> 01:20:08,560
and uh chris lou

2234
01:20:12,709 --> 01:20:10,639
tom was there hal and we were all

2235
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,719
chatting about this and i remember chris

2236
01:20:16,229 --> 01:20:15,120
said and he was absolutely right and i

2237
01:20:19,510 --> 01:20:16,239
do believe he's right and debbie this

2238
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:19,520
goes right to your point um we were

2239
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:21,120
saying well how much responsibility we

2240
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:22,719
can have as an organization to bring

2241
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:24,080
this out but there were some people that

2242
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:25,199
were arguing

2243
01:20:28,470 --> 01:20:26,880
you know do you want to scare you know

2244
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:28,480
younger people by coming out with all

2245
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:30,000
this data and things along those lines

2246
01:20:34,870 --> 01:20:32,960
but chris chris mellon made the point

2247
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:34,880
he said it's already out

2248
01:20:39,669 --> 01:20:37,120
it's there people are debbie just like

2249
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:39,679
you said i was affected by it chris

2250
01:20:45,830 --> 01:20:42,320
bledsoe was and hundreds of thousands of

2251
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:45,840
people are affected by it

2252
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:48,080
you can't hide it and and you really

2253
01:20:52,149 --> 01:20:49,920
shouldn't hide it so i didn't want to

2254
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:52,159
come off as saying i just wanted to come

2255
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:53,679
off and saying there's two sides of the

2256
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:56,080
story but in the end if somebody asked

2257
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:56,880
me

2258
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:59,040
no we have to let this out this is i

2259
01:21:02,790 --> 01:21:01,440
mean we can't but but it's already out

2260
01:21:05,430 --> 01:21:02,800
as far as i'm concerned i mean it's

2261
01:21:06,870 --> 01:21:05,440
already out people just don't accept it

2262
01:21:08,229 --> 01:21:06,880
what everybody's waiting for is the

2263
01:21:09,189 --> 01:21:08,239
government to come out and say anything

2264
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:09,199
and i'm saying what the hell are you

2265
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:10,320
waiting for the government to come out

2266
01:21:14,629 --> 01:21:12,159
they're not the least bit interested you

2267
01:21:16,229 --> 01:21:14,639
know in you know in ufo 101 they're

2268
01:21:18,149 --> 01:21:16,239
they're interested in nuts and bolts how

2269
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:18,159
can i weaponize whatever the hell that

2270
01:21:21,189 --> 01:21:20,000
is and protect the united states

2271
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:21,199
government but they're not interested in

2272
01:21:25,270 --> 01:21:22,880
explaining it to anybody

2273
01:21:28,470 --> 01:21:25,280
that's why we need to go out there and

2274
01:21:29,669 --> 01:21:28,480
and and and and tell people this is real

2275
01:21:31,590 --> 01:21:29,679
this is what you need to do and if

2276
01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:31,600
there's a defense against this like

2277
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:33,440
stuart davis talks a lot about the you

2278
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:35,040
know the defensive mechanisms that you

2279
01:21:39,270 --> 01:21:37,199
can use if you're bothered by this

2280
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:39,280
we need to talk a lot more about that

2281
01:21:42,629 --> 01:21:40,960
and get it out there so chris mellon you

2282
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:42,639
know was absolutely right on this we

2283
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:48,709
yeah and i think you know jim there's uh

2284
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:50,080
it's sort of that same thing that

2285
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:52,480
happens uh you know in human families

2286
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:54,719
right the the human condition

2287
01:21:59,270 --> 01:21:57,440
for whatever reason we all carry with us

2288
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,280
some kind of

2289
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:01,679
shame or or something that we feel like

2290
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,280
you know we do that we don't want every

2291
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,120
other people to know about and if we

2292
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:07,199
were just to kind of lay our

2293
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:09,600
our burdens or our feelings on the table

2294
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:11,040
in front of everyone people would be

2295
01:22:15,990 --> 01:22:13,920
like well i i also have that issue or i

2296
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:16,000
struggle with that or you know there's

2297
01:22:19,990 --> 01:22:17,760
this sense in which we're holding a lot

2298
01:22:21,350 --> 01:22:20,000
in and we need that permission to let

2299
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:21,360
things go

2300
01:22:25,510 --> 01:22:23,360
and to kind of be voluntary with our

2301
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:25,520
experiences and you know the way i look

2302
01:22:28,629 --> 01:22:26,480
at this

2303
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:28,639
disclosure issue is that it's you know

2304
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:30,480
it really is a call and response there

2305
01:22:34,870 --> 01:22:33,360
is someone who goes forth whether it be

2306
01:22:36,390 --> 01:22:34,880
the government or someone with other

2307
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:36,400
with influence who kind of gives

2308
01:22:40,870 --> 01:22:38,960
permission to the to the herd you know

2309
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:40,880
to say that there is a there there and

2310
01:22:45,189 --> 01:22:43,280
then the response is

2311
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:45,199
probably pretty overwhelming as i think

2312
01:22:49,990 --> 01:22:47,440
we've been hinting at that that this is

2313
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:50,000
real and that many have experienced it

2314
01:22:53,189 --> 01:22:51,760
and i just wonder to what degree do you

2315
01:22:55,830 --> 01:22:53,199
think

2316
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:55,840
you know across the world you know our

2317
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:57,840
governments are or are the is there any

2318
01:23:02,790 --> 01:23:00,400
degree of coordination here to kind of

2319
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:02,800
work together to try to to set the table

2320
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:04,960
and allow permission for this to be

2321
01:23:10,390 --> 01:23:07,199
acknowledged no

2322
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:10,400
um and um yes and no um

2323
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:11,840
yes governments

2324
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:12,719
um

2325
01:23:17,750 --> 01:23:16,159
if you if you ask me five eyes you know

2326
01:23:19,110 --> 01:23:17,760
yeah i'm sure

2327
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:19,120
there's definitely

2328
01:23:23,910 --> 01:23:21,840
talk going on

2329
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:23,920
but other governments um

2330
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:26,719
have have contacted us

2331
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:27,520
and

2332
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,760
you know

2333
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:31,280
you have a problem here and and the

2334
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:33,840
problem is if you uh a government who

2335
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:36,320
has uh say for instance france

2336
01:23:41,110 --> 01:23:38,639
uh you know very wonderfully open about

2337
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:41,120
this they have a lot of data

2338
01:23:45,030 --> 01:23:42,960
but if they bring the data over to the

2339
01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:45,040
us yeah you know essentially the french

2340
01:23:49,590 --> 01:23:46,960
want to know what the us knows now if

2341
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:49,600
the us knows a lot more and

2342
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:51,520
and the a lot more they know has to do

2343
01:23:54,149 --> 01:23:53,280
with weapon systems or anything they're

2344
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:54,159
not gonna

2345
01:24:00,390 --> 01:23:57,280
so

2346
01:24:03,669 --> 01:24:01,750
that doesn't mean that that shouldn't be

2347
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:03,679
done i mean it really should be done i

2348
01:24:07,510 --> 01:24:05,199
mean i think

2349
01:24:09,270 --> 01:24:07,520
there is something going on uh but i

2350
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:09,280
think it's at a low level right now i

2351
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:10,880
think five eyes is probably doing a lot

2352
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:12,960
more together but but no

2353
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:16,400
but yeah you know it's it's it's

2354
01:24:20,229 --> 01:24:18,080
again this is the reason why we wanted

2355
01:24:21,430 --> 01:24:20,239
to take this outside is my reason why

2356
01:24:23,270 --> 01:24:21,440
lou left

2357
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:23,280
is because we knew that the government

2358
01:24:27,430 --> 01:24:25,360
was not the place

2359
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:27,440
to get this out to the public to get

2360
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:29,760
this out in a proper way it just it

2361
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:31,199
isn't that's not how the government

2362
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:32,239
works

2363
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:34,719
you know you need to take this out

2364
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:36,480
privately and and you need to figure

2365
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:38,960
this out we need a bill gates

2366
01:24:44,390 --> 01:24:41,600
a ford foundation we need to get you

2367
01:24:45,990 --> 01:24:44,400
know people that are serious behind this

2368
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:46,000
i mean bill cates spending a ton of

2369
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:48,320
money on mosquito you know a dna you

2370
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:49,920
know switching around fine this is

2371
01:24:53,270 --> 01:24:52,080
fantastic he's saving lives

2372
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:53,280
but um

2373
01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:54,719
for a lot of people this is just too

2374
01:24:59,189 --> 01:24:56,480
woo-woo

2375
01:25:01,030 --> 01:24:59,199
they don't want to go there you know and

2376
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:01,040
sadly i mean you know for all of us

2377
01:25:03,510 --> 01:25:02,080
right you know we sit here we're

2378
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:03,520
spending our whole life dealing with

2379
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:05,600
this right it's all we think about

2380
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:08,080
but there aren't enough people that are

2381
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:10,000
concerned i think

2382
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,280
and i get that but what do you think the

2383
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:13,199
percentage is of the population that

2384
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,800
actually has had an experience that

2385
01:25:18,149 --> 01:25:16,320
hasn't

2386
01:25:21,270 --> 01:25:18,159
i would say at least

2387
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:21,280
50 to 60 percent in some form or fashion

2388
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:23,040
whether that include probably more if

2389
01:25:26,709 --> 01:25:25,440
you include poltergeist activity

2390
01:25:29,350 --> 01:25:26,719
paranormal

2391
01:25:31,350 --> 01:25:29,360
right uh yeah and again i mean my

2392
01:25:33,430 --> 01:25:31,360
feeling isn't that this is paranormal or

2393
01:25:34,709 --> 01:25:33,440
supernatural this is all natural

2394
01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:34,719
activity

2395
01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:36,560
we just call it supernaturals we don't

2396
01:25:41,030 --> 01:25:38,320
understand it but it is all part of the

2397
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:41,040
natural universe as part of our reality

2398
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,280
so our consensus reality that we live in

2399
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:45,440
right now right it's just

2400
01:25:51,110 --> 01:25:48,320
it's just too constricted it's not true

2401
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:51,120
it's not it's not real and it needs to

2402
01:25:55,030 --> 01:25:53,520
open up it's what you know henry and

2403
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:55,040
james um

2404
01:26:00,310 --> 01:25:57,280
uh william james you know

2405
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:00,320
kept calling for this radical empiricism

2406
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:02,960
and by that he meant uh just just this

2407
01:26:06,950 --> 01:26:05,280
idea that you could have you know an

2408
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:06,960
empiric system

2409
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:08,639
but you need to have it opened up to

2410
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,679
bring this in they proved you know back

2411
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:13,600
the the british psychical association

2412
01:26:17,189 --> 01:26:15,120
around the turn of the century pretty

2413
01:26:18,950 --> 01:26:17,199
much approved telepathy exists

2414
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:18,960
telekinesis exists

2415
01:26:23,510 --> 01:26:21,040
um uh clairvoyance things along those

2416
01:26:24,790 --> 01:26:23,520
lines i mean they had plenty of evidence

2417
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:24,800
you know to prove that this is real

2418
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,790
but you know you take it to a scientist

2419
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:32,639
and you know and actually there were

2420
01:26:36,709 --> 01:26:34,800
they were scientists to prove this

2421
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:36,719
but you know this again this tradition

2422
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:38,400
of disbelief that's been going on in our

2423
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,639
educational system forever

2424
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:42,960
um they just don't look at it that way

2425
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:44,880
it's uh science is a wonderful thing i

2426
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:47,199
mean it's just incredibly wonderful it's

2427
01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:49,440
brought great success and

2428
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:51,840
um you know in health and and um you

2429
01:26:56,310 --> 01:26:54,080
know technology but

2430
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,320
it um it um

2431
01:27:00,470 --> 01:26:58,560
it doesn't accept things uh if it

2432
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:00,480
doesn't meet fit into the model and the

2433
01:27:04,950 --> 01:27:03,120
model is reliability and predictability

2434
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:04,960
and as there's one thing this phenomenon

2435
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:07,920
is not it's a matter of it spits at us

2436
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:10,400
when you when you try to get you know

2437
01:27:14,149 --> 01:27:12,239
anywhere reliability or predictability

2438
01:27:15,189 --> 01:27:14,159
at it it gives you the big middle finger

2439
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:15,199
right

2440
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:17,520
uh because it doesn't care

2441
01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:20,000
it doesn't care

2442
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:21,679
that's the only excuse i have i mean i

2443
01:27:26,390 --> 01:27:23,520
know now the city might say well it's a

2444
01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:26,400
grander reason why it doesn't care well

2445
01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:29,120
i don't think so i mean you know i again

2446
01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:31,040
i go back to the gym right they're

2447
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:33,600
[\h__\h] with us

2448
01:27:37,030 --> 01:27:35,520
this is what john keel said you know in

2449
01:27:39,110 --> 01:27:37,040
operation trojan horse which i probably

2450
01:27:42,550 --> 01:27:39,120
read four times already but he called it

2451
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:42,560
a big paraphysical game just a big

2452
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:44,480
screw you you know what i mean i have a

2453
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:45,840
chance to screw you because i have

2454
01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:48,320
something over you and i'm gonna do it

2455
01:27:54,629 --> 01:27:51,520
and um sometimes it's funny most times

2456
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:54,639
it isn't and sometimes it's dangerous

2457
01:27:58,790 --> 01:27:56,320
and sometimes it's just plain human

2458
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:58,800
rights violations you know so

2459
01:28:02,550 --> 01:28:00,400
and then sometimes it works wonders you

2460
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:02,560
know i don't know so we'll see

2461
01:28:06,629 --> 01:28:04,560
on that dark note since since you just

2462
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:06,639
went there i'll i have one dark question

2463
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:08,000
left i have a light question we got to

2464
01:28:13,830 --> 01:28:09,520
get to that i got to leave

2465
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:13,840
yeah so okay let me uh this question um

2466
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,520
you you've said you know people have

2467
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:17,840
died over this the phenomenon is not all

2468
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:20,800
good uh people like lou yourself rick

2469
01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:23,040
dodi allude to things like this

2470
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,360
uh is the phenomenon the source in your

2471
01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:27,760
opinion of many missing people who have

2472
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:30,400
mysteriously disappeared from national

2473
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:33,120
parks people such as uh the tom messa

2474
01:28:38,390 --> 01:28:36,719
case presented by david politis um

2475
01:28:42,149 --> 01:28:38,400
is the phenomenon

2476
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:42,159
perhaps the source of missing people uh

2477
01:28:45,910 --> 01:28:43,920
certainly certainly a possibility i mean

2478
01:28:48,790 --> 01:28:45,920
i haven't read i hadn't read haven't not

2479
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:48,800
read politi's work um uh uh although

2480
01:28:52,629 --> 01:28:50,480
i i take it at face value that it's that

2481
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:52,639
it's accurate and it's true um people

2482
01:28:56,390 --> 01:28:54,560
disappear you know too many people

2483
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:56,400
disappear all the time and we don't know

2484
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:57,920
what happened to them could it be the

2485
01:29:01,189 --> 01:28:59,760
phenomenon

2486
01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:01,199
why not

2487
01:29:05,110 --> 01:29:03,199
i mean what else is it i mean seriously

2488
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:05,120
what else is it i mean if a hundred

2489
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:07,840
thousand people you know disappear in a

2490
01:29:11,189 --> 01:29:09,360
year or two years

2491
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:11,199
or the bodies

2492
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:13,600
right i don't know i mean you know it's

2493
01:29:17,510 --> 01:29:15,280
it's yeah

2494
01:29:19,430 --> 01:29:17,520
yeah i mean it could very well be

2495
01:29:21,189 --> 01:29:19,440
um but we have no proof

2496
01:29:22,390 --> 01:29:21,199
right once again

2497
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:22,400
i know right

2498
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:25,040
we're swimming in what whitney whitley

2499
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:27,760
street calls out a force of hypotheses

2500
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:29,120
we're just

2501
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:30,639
roaming around this forest you know

2502
01:29:33,350 --> 01:29:31,840
thinking what could be this well it

2503
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:33,360
could be that well it could be this

2504
01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:34,560
thing over here

2505
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:35,920
in the end we don't know and this is

2506
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:37,520
what the most frustrating thing is about

2507
01:29:41,430 --> 01:29:39,679
this dj at least to me

2508
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:41,440
and it's the reason why probably once a

2509
01:29:45,750 --> 01:29:43,760
month i say that's it i'm closing shop

2510
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:45,760
you know getting in the books

2511
01:29:49,669 --> 01:29:47,920
you know just just live the rest of

2512
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:49,679
whatever life i have left you know and i

2513
01:29:52,950 --> 01:29:51,120
mean and hang out at the beach and i'd

2514
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:52,960
live near the beach here or so

2515
01:29:56,629 --> 01:29:55,440
but then i get drags me back right you

2516
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:56,639
know

2517
01:30:00,629 --> 01:29:58,960
the michael corleone syndrome well i get

2518
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:00,639
this linkedin request and this guy named

2519
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:03,280
gj and you know these uh polling gold

2520
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:05,760
beans kind of thing

2521
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:07,440
know seriously but you know i i don't

2522
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:08,560
you know you know when you look at

2523
01:30:12,629 --> 01:30:10,639
fellow travelers right and you know and

2524
01:30:14,149 --> 01:30:12,639
i don't have anybody i talk to about

2525
01:30:17,189 --> 01:30:14,159
this you know i don't there isn't

2526
01:30:19,750 --> 01:30:17,199
anybody and except you know my pals like

2527
01:30:21,669 --> 01:30:19,760
john or you know robert hastings you

2528
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:21,679
know i'm always in contact with and tom

2529
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,320
and and um you know things and you know

2530
01:30:28,149 --> 01:30:26,639
kit and hal and stuff i can always talk

2531
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:28,159
to them about it but you know we live

2532
01:30:33,270 --> 01:30:30,000
far away from each other and it's it's

2533
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:33,280
hard and it's uh it's hard to to talk so

2534
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:34,719
when you get an opportunity to talk with

2535
01:30:37,430 --> 01:30:36,320
like-minded souls

2536
01:30:40,229 --> 01:30:37,440
you know

2537
01:30:41,030 --> 01:30:40,239
it's a gift yeah you do it it truly is

2538
01:30:42,790 --> 01:30:41,040
um

2539
01:30:44,709 --> 01:30:42,800
steph do you uh do

2540
01:30:46,629 --> 01:30:44,719
do you have anything uh left for him and

2541
01:30:48,790 --> 01:30:46,639
then john and then we'll we'll get get

2542
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:48,800
you out of here i do have one last

2543
01:30:51,830 --> 01:30:50,960
inquiry and my apologies it's a bit dark

2544
01:30:53,590 --> 01:30:51,840
as well

2545
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:53,600
i'm i'm deeply concerned for our

2546
01:30:58,709 --> 01:30:56,239
military personnel and them being on the

2547
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:58,719
front lines of addressing this

2548
01:31:01,830 --> 01:30:59,840
and

2549
01:31:03,430 --> 01:31:01,840
being from southern california being off

2550
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:03,440
the coast of california having friends

2551
01:31:09,030 --> 01:31:06,800
serve in the navy and the military

2552
01:31:09,990 --> 01:31:09,040
that just heightens my awareness as well

2553
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:10,000
so

2554
01:31:14,629 --> 01:31:12,000
uh on the coast of catalina there was a

2555
01:31:16,390 --> 01:31:14,639
recent amphibious craft of ours that

2556
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:16,400
unfortunately had

2557
01:31:22,229 --> 01:31:19,040
sank and we lost nine of our members is

2558
01:31:24,390 --> 01:31:22,239
there potential force this trans-medium

2559
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,400
craft to have been

2560
01:31:29,110 --> 01:31:26,960
altering our mechanics as

2561
01:31:31,590 --> 01:31:29,120
they've been reported to do so do you

2562
01:31:33,030 --> 01:31:31,600
are you able to comment on that for one

2563
01:31:34,870 --> 01:31:33,040
i don't want to ask a question you're

2564
01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:34,880
not able to yeah

2565
01:31:38,470 --> 01:31:36,400
i'll be honest i don't have very much

2566
01:31:39,669 --> 01:31:38,480
information on the transmedia vehicles i

2567
01:31:40,470 --> 01:31:39,679
do know

2568
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:40,480
uh

2569
01:31:46,229 --> 01:31:45,360
that to have a little bit more knowledge

2570
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:46,239
um

2571
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,440
that they can't figure it out because

2572
01:31:51,270 --> 01:31:49,440
there's no cavitation effects or super

2573
01:31:52,629 --> 01:31:51,280
cavitation effects associated with these

2574
01:31:53,750 --> 01:31:52,639
these vehicles

2575
01:31:55,510 --> 01:31:53,760
um

2576
01:31:57,110 --> 01:31:55,520
they just seem to be able to do what

2577
01:32:00,390 --> 01:31:57,120
they do and

2578
01:32:01,350 --> 01:32:00,400
and some people believe that

2579
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:01,360
you know it

2580
01:32:08,470 --> 01:32:05,280
you know are these craft intentionally

2581
01:32:09,669 --> 01:32:08,480
damaging or taking our lives and or are

2582
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:09,679
are our

2583
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,440
ships instead of getting too close to

2584
01:32:15,669 --> 01:32:13,199
them um

2585
01:32:18,229 --> 01:32:15,679
i i don't know i think it's i think it's

2586
01:32:20,149 --> 01:32:18,239
um uh you know it's it's the fault of

2587
01:32:21,669 --> 01:32:20,159
the person who knows more and who has

2588
01:32:25,030 --> 01:32:21,679
more control this would be the

2589
01:32:26,790 --> 01:32:25,040
phenomenon but i will tell you sure that

2590
01:32:27,990 --> 01:32:26,800
i got a briefing

2591
01:32:29,430 --> 01:32:28,000
um

2592
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:29,440
on

2593
01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:30,560
the

2594
01:32:33,669 --> 01:32:31,520
uh

2595
01:32:35,110 --> 01:32:33,679
cohort group

2596
01:32:36,229 --> 01:32:35,120
uh

2597
01:32:38,830 --> 01:32:36,239
it used to be called the interference

2598
01:32:41,350 --> 01:32:38,840
syndrome and it was it was about 100

2599
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:41,360
people and out of that hundred we've

2600
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:43,920
lost uh about 20

2601
01:32:48,870 --> 01:32:46,800
uh and who these are people who ran

2602
01:32:51,270 --> 01:32:48,880
smack dab into the phenomenon right in

2603
01:32:53,430 --> 01:32:51,280
various circumstances my wife and i are

2604
01:32:57,270 --> 01:32:53,440
included in that um

2605
01:33:02,229 --> 01:32:57,280
and we lost a lot of those 20 to suicide

2606
01:33:04,629 --> 01:33:02,239
um i saw the hipaa restricted uh

2607
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:04,639
powerpoint uh on what these people look

2608
01:33:09,430 --> 01:33:07,120
like what their brains look like what

2609
01:33:12,070 --> 01:33:09,440
their bodies looked like

2610
01:33:15,110 --> 01:33:12,080
after they were

2611
01:33:19,189 --> 01:33:15,120
either had orb activity or

2612
01:33:24,390 --> 01:33:21,910
these these officers you know going out

2613
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,400
and then coming back and um

2614
01:33:27,510 --> 01:33:26,320
then the hitchhiker effect

2615
01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:27,520
uh

2616
01:33:34,390 --> 01:33:32,320
you know the orbs

2617
01:33:37,030 --> 01:33:34,400
uh so it's it's pretty serious stuff and

2618
01:33:39,590 --> 01:33:37,040
and you know i don't

2619
01:33:41,430 --> 01:33:39,600
i i i i you know i i don't know what to

2620
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:41,440
do i mean you know there you know you

2621
01:33:46,310 --> 01:33:43,600
know i i this is really funny i mean my

2622
01:33:48,830 --> 01:33:46,320
wife and i sleep with on all our beds

2623
01:33:51,669 --> 01:33:48,840
all right there's rosaries and amulets

2624
01:33:54,149 --> 01:33:51,679
right i don't know what else to do i got

2625
01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:54,159
a mezuza on my front door i'm not jewish

2626
01:33:57,830 --> 01:33:55,920
but you know what i mean it's like i got

2627
01:34:00,149 --> 01:33:57,840
buddhas in my backyard i got you know

2628
01:34:01,110 --> 01:34:00,159
and and i sleep with a locked door at

2629
01:34:02,709 --> 01:34:01,120
night

2630
01:34:04,470 --> 01:34:02,719
i always have

2631
01:34:08,629 --> 01:34:04,480
i can't sleep in a dark room you gotta

2632
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:08,639
have a little bit of light and um um

2633
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:10,080
i don't know i mean you know some you

2634
01:34:13,830 --> 01:34:12,320
know stuart you know would say you know

2635
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:13,840
you have to and i agree with stuart i

2636
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:15,360
mean you can you can always ask it to

2637
01:34:19,189 --> 01:34:17,360
leave you alone

2638
01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:19,199
sure but in the case stuff that you're

2639
01:34:22,470 --> 01:34:21,040
you're talking about um you know when

2640
01:34:23,350 --> 01:34:22,480
and this is not the first time this has

2641
01:34:25,430 --> 01:34:23,360
happened

2642
01:34:27,750 --> 01:34:25,440
uh where you know military aircraft

2643
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:27,760
things long enough get too close and uh

2644
01:34:31,750 --> 01:34:29,679
you you know and then you lose use a

2645
01:34:33,510 --> 01:34:31,760
life or two but you know in the end if

2646
01:34:35,910 --> 01:34:33,520
you look at it over 80 years we haven't

2647
01:34:36,790 --> 01:34:35,920
lost that many people to this phenomenon

2648
01:34:38,709 --> 01:34:36,800
right

2649
01:34:40,550 --> 01:34:38,719
we've lost some but you know like losing

2650
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:40,560
one is bad enough but we haven't lost

2651
01:34:44,870 --> 01:34:43,040
like enough that make everybody

2652
01:34:47,109 --> 01:34:44,880
jump up and down

2653
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,119
you know so that's a good question

2654
01:34:50,709 --> 01:34:48,960
though i had yeah i always agree i wish

2655
01:34:51,990 --> 01:34:50,719
i had more of an answer for you

2656
01:34:56,709 --> 01:34:52,000
that was a great question something to

2657
01:35:04,790 --> 01:34:59,590
and we'll give the last question

2658
01:35:07,590 --> 01:35:06,709
he's gonna unmute there okay thank you

2659
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:07,600
um

2660
01:35:14,390 --> 01:35:12,320
you just mentioned some of these uh

2661
01:35:16,070 --> 01:35:14,400
anomalous health effects

2662
01:35:18,390 --> 01:35:16,080
um and

2663
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:18,400
what occurred at skinwalker ranch with

2664
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:24,629
is there any kind of correlation between

2665
01:35:30,070 --> 01:35:27,360
that effect and what is properly known

2666
01:35:31,510 --> 01:35:30,080
as havana syndrome

2667
01:35:32,950 --> 01:35:31,520
whoa

2668
01:35:34,950 --> 01:35:32,960
uh

2669
01:35:37,189 --> 01:35:34,960
i just had a conversation

2670
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:37,199
with um

2671
01:35:41,990 --> 01:35:40,239
somebody about that not too long ago um

2672
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:42,000
i was a victim i they think i was a

2673
01:35:45,189 --> 01:35:43,600
victim of havana syndrome back in the

2674
01:35:47,830 --> 01:35:45,199
80s believe it or not

2675
01:35:50,149 --> 01:35:47,840
this technology uh goes back probably to

2676
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:50,159
the mid 70s and

2677
01:35:53,510 --> 01:35:51,840
it um

2678
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:53,520
i really can't comment on too much but

2679
01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:56,480
the technology now is is really

2680
01:36:00,709 --> 01:35:59,760
available i mean anybody can can do this

2681
01:36:02,310 --> 01:36:00,719
um

2682
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,320
it i mean i shouldn't say anybody i mean

2683
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:04,400
you really need an engineer or somebody

2684
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:06,000
who's really good with

2685
01:36:10,470 --> 01:36:09,119
electronics can can actually do this and

2686
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:10,480
pose a problem

2687
01:36:14,950 --> 01:36:13,040
uh but yeah there very well might be i

2688
01:36:16,470 --> 01:36:14,960
mean gary nolan uh talked about this so

2689
01:36:19,030 --> 01:36:16,480
did kick green

2690
01:36:21,669 --> 01:36:19,040
uh about these commonalities uh between

2691
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:21,679
the two and whether there just

2692
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:22,880
happened to be

2693
01:36:26,950 --> 01:36:24,480
you know uh

2694
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:26,960
similar in some respects you know i you

2695
01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:28,560
know i i don't know

2696
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,600
but

2697
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:31,520
the havana syndrome you know is

2698
01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:32,800
something

2699
01:36:36,149 --> 01:36:34,400
that's happening

2700
01:36:38,310 --> 01:36:36,159
you know to uh

2701
01:36:41,030 --> 01:36:38,320
believe it or not mostly agency people

2702
01:36:43,510 --> 01:36:41,040
uh and nsa people and things along those

2703
01:36:44,870 --> 01:36:43,520
lines uh and and some military people

2704
01:36:46,950 --> 01:36:44,880
it's usually intelligence people it's

2705
01:36:48,390 --> 01:36:46,960
happening too uh so that that is

2706
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:48,400
definitely directed now whether it's

2707
01:36:52,550 --> 01:36:51,040
done by the russians um or it's done by

2708
01:36:53,830 --> 01:36:52,560
what pompeo

2709
01:36:56,390 --> 01:36:53,840
uh once

2710
01:36:58,390 --> 01:36:56,400
uh eerily commented on and he said we

2711
01:37:00,070 --> 01:36:58,400
think it might be a non-state hostile

2712
01:37:02,470 --> 01:37:00,080
intelligence service

2713
01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:02,480
think about that the hell is anthony

2714
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:05,520
yeah um uh and he was very careful with

2715
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:07,920
his words he's a very bright guy

2716
01:37:12,310 --> 01:37:10,639
so um so what leads me to believe it

2717
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:12,320
could be commercial

2718
01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:14,800
it could be uh industrial espionage

2719
01:37:17,830 --> 01:37:16,080
somebody trying to

2720
01:37:20,149 --> 01:37:17,840
get information and then selling it you

2721
01:37:22,149 --> 01:37:20,159
know on a black market type of deal and

2722
01:37:25,270 --> 01:37:22,159
then you know and then in the meantime

2723
01:37:27,270 --> 01:37:25,280
um now i do know that mark uh

2724
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:27,280
polymeropolis who was the head of like

2725
01:37:32,870 --> 01:37:30,800
uh ce john i think you know mark yeah

2726
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:32,880
uh when he went to moscow and he got

2727
01:37:36,470 --> 01:37:34,560
whacked he and his deputy got whacked in

2728
01:37:39,510 --> 01:37:36,480
moscow they told him not to go he went

2729
01:37:41,990 --> 01:37:39,520
and they did it i mean they just

2730
01:37:44,229 --> 01:37:42,000
and you can't tell me that was you know

2731
01:37:46,790 --> 01:37:44,239
uh you know a coincidence that was not a

2732
01:37:49,109 --> 01:37:46,800
coincidence they damaged that man and

2733
01:37:51,430 --> 01:37:49,119
they damaged him he was a he's a really

2734
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:51,440
good legendary officer in the agency and

2735
01:37:54,149 --> 01:37:52,880
they damaged him

2736
01:37:58,149 --> 01:37:54,159
so

2737
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:58,159
probably is there certainly are a lot of

2738
01:38:03,030 --> 01:38:00,080
similarities between the two i can't i

2739
01:38:04,550 --> 01:38:03,040
can't for certain say they are and if

2740
01:38:06,229 --> 01:38:04,560
they were though john i mean you know i

2741
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:06,239
mean i would ask you

2742
01:38:11,270 --> 01:38:09,280
what the hell does that mean

2743
01:38:13,189 --> 01:38:11,280
you know

2744
01:38:14,870 --> 01:38:13,199
right yes you have to answer that but i

2745
01:38:15,990 --> 01:38:14,880
mean i don't i don't know you know i

2746
01:38:18,149 --> 01:38:16,000
don't know what it would mean if there

2747
01:38:19,830 --> 01:38:18,159
are similarities between the two

2748
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:19,840
you know does that mean that does that

2749
01:38:24,629 --> 01:38:22,080
mean that the phenomenon is now

2750
01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:24,639
doing things like that you know i don't

2751
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:25,840
know

2752
01:38:36,870 --> 01:38:35,760
that is it is is um

2753
01:38:39,030 --> 01:38:36,880
uh

2754
01:38:40,950 --> 01:38:39,040
it's still being practiced obviously and

2755
01:38:42,229 --> 01:38:40,960
it may be being practiced by independent

2756
01:38:45,510 --> 01:38:42,239
players

2757
01:38:48,310 --> 01:38:45,520
along with um uh state actors nation

2758
01:38:50,310 --> 01:38:48,320
states yeah that's really scary that

2759
01:38:53,030 --> 01:38:50,320
so even though uh it's sort of a dark

2760
01:38:55,590 --> 01:38:53,040
topic to end on i want to say that you

2761
01:38:57,910 --> 01:38:55,600
and our honorary cabbie today uh john

2762
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:57,920
ramirez have brought so much positivity

2763
01:39:00,629 --> 01:38:59,840
into the space which is why we do the

2764
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:00,639
show

2765
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:03,440
uh is to kind of spread it bring it and

2766
01:39:08,310 --> 01:39:06,239
just pervade that out into the ufo

2767
01:39:10,070 --> 01:39:08,320
community and and boy did you really

2768
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:10,080
bring it so what this is the part where

2769
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:11,600
we each say goodbye and we'll start with

2770
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:14,000
our uap experience our stuff

2771
01:39:16,950 --> 01:39:15,360
i'm gonna make it fast so i know we have

2772
01:39:19,109 --> 01:39:16,960
to wrap up it's been great sharing the

2773
01:39:21,109 --> 01:39:19,119
space with you guys i can we'll continue

2774
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:21,119
to listen to you on your journey through

2775
01:39:24,709 --> 01:39:22,400
exploring this

2776
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:24,719
wild thing that we're all you know

2777
01:39:29,510 --> 01:39:26,400
trying to figure out so thank you so

2778
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:29,520
much and i'll see you on the next show

2779
01:39:33,910 --> 01:39:31,360
thank you steph

2780
01:39:35,590 --> 01:39:33,920
and uh mr ramirez

2781
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:35,600
well jim it's uh

2782
01:39:38,790 --> 01:39:37,040
it's an honor being with you i think

2783
01:39:40,709 --> 01:39:38,800
it's a first i don't think uh any

2784
01:39:43,030 --> 01:39:40,719
podcast has had

2785
01:39:45,189 --> 01:39:43,040
two cia officers at the same time so it

2786
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:45,199
was a pleasure to be with you

2787
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:48,400
this is oh he's back this is incredible

2788
01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:54,950
and we'll see if jim can hear us i think

2789
01:39:59,510 --> 01:39:57,440
does he think we closed out completely

2790
01:40:01,430 --> 01:39:59,520
i don't think so

2791
01:40:02,229 --> 01:40:01,440
he may have just frozen if we lost him i

2792
01:40:03,189 --> 01:40:02,239
don't

2793
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:03,199
um

2794
01:40:06,709 --> 01:40:04,560
that would be terrible we were doing so

2795
01:40:10,870 --> 01:40:06,719
good on our goodbyes i'm so beautiful

2796
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:13,510
yes jim we see you on screen but you're

2797
01:40:18,149 --> 01:40:15,890
frozen

2798
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:18,159
[Music]

2799
01:40:30,550 --> 01:40:28,629
it was bad timing but almost funny

2800
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:30,560
just as you were saying the two of you

2801
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:32,960
were on the screen

2802
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:42,870
yeah my intro was a little funky too

2803
01:40:45,189 --> 01:40:44,070
well um

2804
01:40:47,910 --> 01:40:45,199
well

2805
01:40:50,229 --> 01:40:47,920
while we're waiting perhaps um

2806
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:50,239
john since we've got you here uh if we

2807
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:51,760
can get jim back but we'd love to talk

2808
01:40:56,629 --> 01:40:54,159
with you as well um can you tell any any

2809
01:40:58,550 --> 01:40:56,639
of us what you've been working on or uh

2810
01:41:00,390 --> 01:40:58,560
what you know yes ideas are floating

2811
01:41:02,470 --> 01:41:00,400
around your head right now right uh one

2812
01:41:05,910 --> 01:41:02,480
of the projects uh is called radio

2813
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:05,920
contact it's uh by mark sims and jimmy

2814
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:08,080
blanchett a part of a private group

2815
01:41:12,550 --> 01:41:10,480
based out of sedona arizona

2816
01:41:16,310 --> 01:41:12,560
uh we do have a like a global presence

2817
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,320
of about eight of us we're using radios

2818
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:18,480
the way jimmy blanchett and mark sims

2819
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:21,520
use these radios to try to make contact

2820
01:41:25,430 --> 01:41:23,600
and uh so there's some exciting

2821
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:25,440
developments about that

2822
01:41:30,149 --> 01:41:28,000
uh and also i will be appearing at the

2823
01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:30,159
international ufo congress

2824
01:41:36,629 --> 01:41:33,760
in mesa arizona in october and i'll be

2825
01:41:40,629 --> 01:41:36,639
presenting a talk on the legislation

2826
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:40,639
that is forthcoming fiscal year fy23 and

2827
01:41:47,270 --> 01:41:44,400
comparing notes between what the

2828
01:41:49,910 --> 01:41:47,280
nda says what the ia says

2829
01:41:51,990 --> 01:41:49,920
and how these various agencies might

2830
01:41:52,790 --> 01:41:52,000
respond to the legislation which opens

2831
01:41:54,790 --> 01:41:52,800
up

2832
01:41:56,550 --> 01:41:54,800
a lot of um

2833
01:41:58,870 --> 01:41:56,560
ability for people like me to come

2834
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:58,880
forward for others to come forward

2835
01:42:04,790 --> 01:42:01,280
with whistleblower protection um and

2836
01:42:07,189 --> 01:42:04,800
with uh somewhat forgiveness

2837
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:07,199
for uh coming forward was more truth

2838
01:42:12,709 --> 01:42:09,679
that i think everyone would like to hear

2839
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:12,719
and so i'll be doing that in october

2840
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:15,360
fantastic thank you so much

2841
01:42:21,830 --> 01:42:16,480
uh dj

2842
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:29,430
dj

2843
01:42:33,189 --> 01:42:31,189
several technical difficulties here at

2844
01:42:35,189 --> 01:42:33,199
the end so uh well that's really

2845
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:35,199
fantastic john and you know have you

2846
01:42:38,470 --> 01:42:36,960
seen since you've kind of been more

2847
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:38,480
vocal about your experiences and it

2848
01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:40,000
sounds like you're getting a lot more

2849
01:42:43,270 --> 01:42:41,440
involved you know have you seen a

2850
01:42:45,030 --> 01:42:43,280
positive response from your former

2851
01:42:47,990 --> 01:42:45,040
colleagues or folks that are currently

2852
01:42:50,149 --> 01:42:48,000
in in the agency uh you know in reaction

2853
01:42:51,990 --> 01:42:50,159
to kind of what's happening generally in

2854
01:42:54,149 --> 01:42:52,000
this area

2855
01:42:56,390 --> 01:42:54,159
well i've reached back to uh some of my

2856
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:56,400
friends who i know knew were experiences

2857
01:42:59,910 --> 01:42:58,239
from before i try to urge them to come

2858
01:43:01,669 --> 01:42:59,920
forward

2859
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:01,679
and they're very reluctant to do so so

2860
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:03,199
we might have to rely on this

2861
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:05,360
legislation to give them what we call

2862
01:43:10,550 --> 01:43:09,040
top cover to come out with their story

2863
01:43:11,990 --> 01:43:10,560
right

2864
01:43:14,070 --> 01:43:12,000
great

2865
01:43:16,390 --> 01:43:14,080
all right dj one last time you with us

2866
01:43:19,830 --> 01:43:16,400
hi yes sir i'm back with you and i want

2867
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:19,840
to relay from jim on the phone uh he uh

2868
01:43:25,270 --> 01:43:22,560
he wanted to thank john and you nathan

2869
01:43:27,750 --> 01:43:25,280
and deb and steph uh and he really

2870
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:27,760
enjoyed it he said it was a hoot and uh

2871
01:43:32,070 --> 01:43:29,760
i'm assuming that uh based on that he'll

2872
01:43:34,149 --> 01:43:32,080
probably come back with us and and i

2873
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:34,159
think we have enough questions on our

2874
01:43:38,790 --> 01:43:36,560
spreadsheet now to do a whole other show

2875
01:43:40,229 --> 01:43:38,800
we certainly do yeah and uh on that note

2876
01:43:41,910 --> 01:43:40,239
as we kind of wrap up i wanted to thank

2877
01:43:43,430 --> 01:43:41,920
uh again thank you john for joining us

2878
01:43:44,790 --> 01:43:43,440
this evening and and thank you to

2879
01:43:46,470 --> 01:43:44,800
everyone who's been

2880
01:43:48,870 --> 01:43:46,480
listening to the show and dropping

2881
01:43:51,030 --> 01:43:48,880
comments we did see all the comments um

2882
01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:51,040
like dj hindi we have so many questions

2883
01:43:54,229 --> 01:43:52,800
we couldn't get to so hopefully we'll

2884
01:43:55,510 --> 01:43:54,239
get a chance to uh do that again and

2885
01:43:57,270 --> 01:43:55,520
john we'd love to have you back of

2886
01:43:59,910 --> 01:43:57,280
course as well to uh to have an extended

2887
01:44:01,510 --> 01:43:59,920
conversation uh if that's okay with you

2888
01:44:02,950 --> 01:44:01,520
uh so if you haven't hit a like and we

2889
01:44:04,390 --> 01:44:02,960
would appreciate that very much it does

2890
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:04,400
help the show

2891
01:44:07,750 --> 01:44:05,679
if you haven't subscribed that would

2892
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:07,760
help as well and dj you want to take us

2893
01:44:11,590 --> 01:44:08,880
out

2894
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:11,600
yeah uh yes again everything that nathan

2895
01:44:17,189 --> 01:44:14,400
said he closed it up perfectly so for uh

2896
01:44:20,149 --> 01:44:17,199
steph for debs for john ramirez our

2897
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:20,159
guest or honorary cabbie

2898
01:44:26,310 --> 01:44:22,800
and for money nathan my co-create and

2899
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:26,320
brother uh this is uh dj saying uh peace

2900
01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:27,119
out

2901
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:28,400
one love

2902
01:44:32,149 --> 01:44:30,560
we'll see you down the road and always

2903
01:44:33,850 --> 01:44:32,159
we're always wondering what's up around